Since Wolves

[Cougartail]

Rat...lol  The BIG difference between me and most on this site is I've lived, hunted, and trapped in Alaska.  I also have hunted and trapped in Washington for 20+ years.

Those oldtimers who have trapped for years in Alaska shake thier heads at the "wolf haters".  If you ask anyone of them in the know they will tell you bears are as hard on ungulate populations as wolves.

Hey what do they know? They couldn't hold a light to the experts on this site...geez!

This isn't AK,  Washington pales in comparison with suitable wolf habitat vs Alaska.  Your "Wolves in Alaska" really has no place in the debate about wolves in the lower 48 states.

Totally different habitat...deer numbers (and domestic losses) speak for themselves..

Yep, real big difference between Washington and  lower BC. They have many more wolves and many more deer, elk, sheep, etc. When I cross into Canada it's like stepping into a new universe..eye roll...lol

Since we don't have the "habitat" for wolves you have nothing to worry about as the wolf will die out on it's own. lol

Do any of you actually think before you post?

The wolf's threat to deer & elk population is small compared to urban sprawl (for elk), over grazing by sheep & cattle, harsh winters, and the liberals who took away trapping and dogs.

I am also amazed how many hunters are whiney little children who when pressed admit doing nothing to help the animals they hunt. Instead of wimpering about the wolf get out there and kill some bears, cougars and most importantly coyotes. Survival rates would increase amongst the deer, elk and small game unlike sitting on the computer whining  about the big bad wolf.

In the early 70s Montana had less than 40,000 elk and you didn't here a peep from hunters. Now they have over 125,000 elk and everyone is whining. Nice to have a scapegoat to blame for your failures I guess..lol

[KFhunter]

I think we're on the same page somewhat, might be some differences of opinion but they are small.

If we're serious about herd building we need to look at ways to get hunters to go after predators, I've posted a thread about this very thing here:
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,134715.0.html 
It was crude and not well thought out, I was just looking to get a discussion going and you can see the attention it got - almost none.
I was hoping people would freak out at the thought of having to take a predator in order to hunt a deer 

We all know wolves aren't the only predator out there, but they have the spotlight right now.  So we'll talk about them, since this is the wolf section of HW afterall eh? Human populations and forest management is a wholly different debate and quite frankly out of our hands.  We can however keep applying pressure to de-list wolves and hold WDFW accountable for their unrealistic wolf plan.  15 breeding pair is unrealistic for Washington when other western states has more viable habitat and bigger herd counts but require less breeding pairs of wolves.  We need to cast out those who would support a cause like wolf reintroduction for personal reasons and ignore science.  Political science isn't sound management.

Wolves are unique in that no other predator has such an impact on livestock, sure a bear and cat might take an animal here and there but nothing like wolves on a blood frenzy.  Livestock owners can also defend against cats and bears.  I applaud recent changes that allow this side of the state to have some limited ability to do the same with a marauding wolf albeit in a much more limited way.  We're getting there, the wolves will do more to get themselves de-listed than we can do now anyways.

[KFhunter]

1 So you're trying to tell me, that in the pre wolf re-introduction days that there was no such thing as winter kill because elk/deer are such super animals they can survive with no food to eat? That only since the re-entry of wolves into the scene have deer and elk died from bad winters? I can show you example after example where you are wrong. 

Don't put words in my mouth,  I'm saying wolves harass the animals all winter long thus making them more prone to winter kill.

3. No predators don't just pick off the diseased animals or the weak. They still have to eat when there are no sick animals around. But given a choice, they tend to go for the most vulnerable animals available which is the sick or weak or old or young. This insures they use up less of their energy reserves and also helps protect them from injury. It's not easy bringing down big animals, even with a pack. Wolves make a lot of false charges testing out potential prey. If an animal shows the ability to protect it's self, they'll move on for a different victim. Now when things get tough, they'll take greater risks as they can't live forever waiting for weakened prey. No, the only predator that pretty much always goes after the biggest, healthiest breeding stock purposely is man.

All those false charges you speak of serve to weaken the animals, it causes them to burn their reserves and thus weakens the whole herd.  The big animals die just the same as the little ones it has nothing to do with genetics or otherwise - just a simple mistep over a frozen tree root leads to a sprain and even a superior stud of a bull with desirable traits will go down.   One animal could dart right, while the herd darted left, and get itself singled out, there is no way a person can make since of it, it's purely random as the hunt plays out. 

This garbage you're spewing about wolves picking off the weaker animals is nothing more than your Disney training at work.

[Cougartail]

I was hoping people would freak out at the thought of having to take a predator in order to hunt a deer 

Sounds good to me!
 

Wolves are unique in that no other predator has such an impact on livestock,

Free roaming farm dogs kill far more livestock than wolves in this state. (along with deer and elk!) They pack up like wolves and have every bit as much blood thirst. I've heard the "It must have been wolves." more than once at kill sites do to the large paw prints left. Nobody wants to believe "Fido" was capable of the carnage.

As to wolves killing the sick, weak, diseased or young. It is true that they will chase and hunt anything they come accross but most times the above mentioned end up on the ground. Most people forget that the predators also suffer and starve to death in bad years which are normally good years for deer and elk.. Having skinned my fair share, I can tell you some years there is very little fat on them.

Anytime an animal is pressured it does risk it's survival but the wolves impact due to numbers is relatively small. I have countless times watched family groups of coyotes run elk, deer and Big Horned Sheep. In deep snow they are also very successful in taking them down in Washington due to snow conditions. (They stay on top of the crusty snow, deer and elk punch through.) The state game fences really help the coyote kill deer also...lol

Singling out the wolf and exaggerating it's impact only gives the "Wolf Lovers" more resolve/ammunition to fight the hunting of it someday. Every liberal in Seattle will be reading this anti wolf garbage, get fired up, vote and use their pocket book to stop any hunting and trapping of it.

[CAMPMEAT]

Let's see the stats from the WDFW about ," free roaming farm dogs killing far more livestock than wolves in this state ". I don't believe that at all.

[KFhunter]

Let's see the stats from the WDFW about ," free roaming farm dogs killing far more livestock than wolves in this state ". I don't believe that at all.

I smell a rat 

[CAMPMEAT]

Let's see the stats from the WDFW about ," free roaming farm dogs killing far more livestock than wolves in this state ". I don't believe that at all.

I smell a rat 

ayup...........

[Cougartail]

Let's see a show of hands of those who have had a NWCO licence and dealt with wildlife problems daily? lol I never filled out a report when "fido" was caught killing the chickens not a coyote. Why did the State give orders to kill any free roaming dogs on WDFW lands back in the 90s in Eastern Washington?

Less than 100 wolves in the state and thousands of dogs roaming free in packs, figure it out.

Hope you guys all live in brick houses..because the big bad wolf is going to huff and puff...

[KFhunter]

Let's see a show of hands of those who have had a NWCO licence and dealt with wildlife problems daily? lol I never filled out a report when "fido" was caught killing the chickens not a coyote. Why did the State give orders to kill any free roaming dogs on WDFW lands back in the 90s in Eastern Washington?

Less than 100 wolves in the state and thousands of dogs roaming free in packs, figure it out.

Hope you guys all live in brick houses..because the big bad wolf is going to huff and puff...

This is the literary equivalent of pulling out your wiener to see if mine is as long as yours. 


No one is keeping hunters from shooting a domestic dogs caught running deer or ranchers if they're spooking cattle,  are you proposing a ban on pets now too?
If I want to shoot the neighbors dog for getting on my property and chasing deer I can do that.  WTheck is your point?  People are people and they're going to be irresponsible with pets.  You ain't gonna change that no matter how much hope you vote for.

[CAMPMEAT]

I figured you couldn't give any stats, typical wolf lover.

[deaner]

Let's see a show of hands of those who have had a NWCO licence and dealt with wildlife problems daily? lol I never filled out a report when "fido" was caught killing the chickens not a coyote. Why did the State give orders to kill any free roaming dogs on WDFW lands back in the 90s in Eastern Washington?

Less than 100 wolves in the state and thousands of dogs roaming free in packs, figure it out.

Hope you guys all live in brick houses..because the big bad wolf is going to huff and puff...

this guy thinks hes smart talking about his "licence" but he cant even spell it correctly.

and "thousands of dogs roaming free in packs"    lets see. supposedly at least 20x the population of pack running feral dogs than wolves in the state according to this chucklehead.   then how is it we have so many wolf sightings and wolves on camera, but i never see people posting up feral dog packs?  only a hundred wolves and thousands (meaning minimum of 2000) of feral dogs running in packs... youd think we would see a bit more of these feral dog packs that are wiping out our deer and elk?  must be as elusive as bigfoot

[wolfbait]

Let's see a show of hands of those who have had a NWCO licence and dealt with wildlife problems daily? lol I never filled out a report when "fido" was caught killing the chickens not a coyote. Why did the State give orders to kill any free roaming dogs on WDFW lands back in the 90s in Eastern Washington?

Less than 100 wolves in the state and thousands of dogs roaming free in packs, figure it out.

Hope you guys all live in brick houses..because the big bad wolf is going to huff and puff...

I guess we learn something new every day, it's the 1000's of wild dogs killing off the deer and elk. I wonder if we should break the news to ID, MT, and Wyoming? It's wasn't wolves you fools it was them dang packed up wild dogs!

Are you the new WDFW wolf counter, Cougartail? Could you give us a hint on the exact number of wolves there are in WA?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

While not quiet correct because they don't have an open season like coyotes the do allow LOTS of tags. BC did some arial gunning to ATTEMPT to help the woodland caribou in thier SE corner.

Bears are Hard on unglulates. Since hound hunting was taken away from us as a tool, and even the pursuit season in the NE what has the state done about bear harvest? They COULD increase spring bear permits a bunch. 

The BC Woodland Caribou were never in trouble because of wolves. Wolves were used as the scapegoat for the damage done to the Caribou's HABITAT by the development of the Tar Sands Oil Project. Killing wolves won't bring them back. It just takes people's minds off the fact that oil companies are responsible for the decline of the woodland caribou.

Hound hunting should never have been taken away. Just another reason to avoid ballot box biology. The average person doesn't have the knowledge to make a decision on managing game populations. That goes for the average hunter too.

[villageidiot]

I don't believe I've seen any tar sands oil development anywhere near Metaline Falls lately.  We have had a woodland caribou herd there for years.  I understand that population is about disappeared lately.   Must be them dirty oil companies hiding their tar sand oil wells.   

[KFhunter]

I don't believe I've seen any tar sands oil development anywhere near Metaline Falls lately.  We have had a woodland caribou herd there for years.  I understand that population is about disappeared lately.   Must be them dirty oil companies hiding their tar sand oil wells.   

I heard one of the WDFW bio's got too close while doing a helicopter survey and ran those caribou off a cliff 

I didn't make that up, I really did hear that