Since Wolves

[wolfbait]

Some of us have followed the wolf destruction in ID, MT and Wyoming, looking at whats left of the Northern Yellowstone elk herd, it shouldn't take anyone long to figure out what wolves are doing to the deer herds, that don't have a secondary prey, such as elk.

The article below was written by a good friend of mine. Whether we are talking about the USFWS, IDFG or WDFW it really doesn't matter as they are all the same. These agencies have an agenda that doesn't include hunting, their wolves and their actions prove this.



Idaho_Roper • 5 days ago−
A very good description of all the ignored impacts the pimps like Carter willfully leave out. Those ignored impacts are the tipping point of the declines in our wildlife populations that have created this steady downward trending that game departments attempt to over up in an attempt to sell something they no longer have.

Wolves are the second most destructive animal on an ecosystem outside of man. But at least man can be controlled and utilize reason, science and law to turn behaviors into positives, hence, our wildlife model that perpetuated game populations. Wolves possess no such ability. As 17 years has now proven, wolves create a steady negative growth trend for all prey species. Record low population now inhabit most ranges the wolves have been allowed to destroy.

Banff, Yellowstone, the Lolo of Idaho and the list goes on and on and on. The evidence is undeniable to all but the most closed minded. And even though every year wolf pimps like Doug Smith claim elk populations will stabilize and turn around, they, in fact, continue to fall. Their narcissistic belligerence in the denial of these facts pretty much eliminates any claims of them being an expert in anything but propaganda.

[turkeyfeather]

I tried to give you the benefit of the doubt, but you leave none humanure.

Is that who that is ??

Sure sounds like it.

[turkeyfeather]

Aspen, sitka. I didn't say there weren't other factors that play a part. I said only a moron thinks that the wolves didn't play a part and are not responsible. I have seen a decline due to the other factors, but that decline was accelerated with the re-introduction of wolves.

[Special T]

Lets see..In 2011 a pack of 5 wild dogs killed almost 100 animals, mostly livestock up around Deer Park, near Spokane. If you check the incident reports on wolves in Washington from 2005 to present you won't even come close to that number of wolf kills on domestics. (livestock, dogs, cats etc.)

That is one pack of 5 mutts.  In Tonasket, dogs killed 9 domestic sheep this year in one incident. That is more than wolves so far this year. I personally have seen 20 plus sheep mauled by roaming packs of dogs.
 

Before blowing a bunch of hot air and calling people "rats" maybe you "wolf haters" should actually read the wolf incident reports and try and educate yourself.

He's accused me of the same thing.  Don't take it too personally....

No one every brings up the idea that habitat loss might be hurting the elk/deer populations too.  Roads, weeds, loss of logging and fire, and higher populations of other predators (bears, coyotes and lions) all have an effect.  The wolf haters on here fail to see those as being SERIOUS contributing factors and are singulalarly (and simply) focused on wolves.

This state is in love with all kinds of Predators Bart, you of all people feel the affects of the WDFW bending to the will of bunny huggers, not being able to run your dogs on bear and cougar in this state. Hound hunting WAS a great tool because it provided the association that dogs/humans were bad and to be avoided. That association is now gone. Wolves are just an extension of that love fest for predators. Were bears and cougars ever in danger of becoming extinct in WA? HeLL no! IMO if they opened up wolf hunting to big game status now, we couldn't even make a dent. 

[mountainman]

Some one here are laughable. Only here to spread de-information. Believe what "reports" they read, accuse others as not knowledgable on the issue. "Do you own livestock"? "Do you spend time hunting"? Would love to spend the time disproving them on both counts, but they have made a argumental "joke" out of this thread, and don't deserve any comeback. People, take them for what they are worth...rats!

[turkeyfeather]

Some one here are laughable. Only here to spread de-information. Believe what "reports" they read, accuse others as not knowledgable on the issue. "Do you own livestock"? "Do you spend time hunting"? Would love to spend the time disproving them on both counts, but they have made a argumental "joke" out of this thread, and don't deserve any comeback. People, take them for what they are worth...rats!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I'm so worried about how bad wolves are in Idaho, I bought tags to hunt elk and deer there this year. Gonna help wolves finish off the herds there.

I'll send some wish you were here pix.

[KFhunter]

So humanure how much is the annual total compensation cap per ranch/livestock owner?
How much is the total cap for statewide compensation?
You don't discuss that,  you don't find in on the WDFW site living with wolves FAQ either.

ranchers aren't compensated for aborted calves, low herd weights and loss of prime graze either, too hard to quantify.

are you a vegan humanure?  You claim to have bird dogs so it's doubtful.
You enjoy beef?  I do, so I support ranchers and if they need to run my future steak on leased graze I'm good with that. 
Who wants a feedlot cow anyways pumped full of antibotics so they don't get infection dragging their bellies through a feces slurry.   
No everyone wants "grass fed" beef but don't want to pay $8/lb for grass fed 90/10 hamburger do they. 

[KFhunter]

I'm so worried about how bad wolves are in Idaho, I bought tags to hunt elk and deer there this year. Gonna help wolves finish off the herds there.

I'll send some wish you were here pix.

Idaho has a far better wolf plan than WA does, less breeding pairs requirements and better management of their Elk herds.  Of course ID is going to have better hunting, I'm heading there myself next year and will most likely forgo all hunting in Washington.

Not to mention ID has butch Otter.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/20/us-wolves-idaho-idUSTRE73J0I120110420

[turkeyfeather]

I'm so worried about how bad wolves are in Idaho, I bought tags to hunt elk and deer there this year. Gonna help wolves finish off the herds there.

I'll send some wish you were here pix.

Idaho has a far better wolf plan than WA does, less breeding pairs requirements and better management of their Elk herds.  Of course ID is going to have better hunting, I'm heading there myself next year and will most likely forgo all hunting in Washington.

Not to mention ID has butch Otter.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/04/20/us-wolves-idaho-idUSTRE73J0I120110420

Not to mention Idaho had a much, much bigger ungulate population to start with.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Wait a minute! You guys aren't following the party line of "the wolf destruction in ID, MT and Wyoming" (quote from Wolfbait). You're going to get kickded out of the club for making Wolfbait look bad.

[turkeyfeather]

Wait a minute! You guys aren't following the party line of "the wolf destruction in ID, MT and Wyoming" (quote from Wolfbait). You're going to get kickded out of the club for making Wolfbait look bad.

Have no idea what your talking about. 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

What I'm talking about is you're hedging on how much damage wolves have really done in Idaho. According to Wolfbait, it's almost total annihilation. Now you guys are trying to tell me why it really isn't so bad in Idaho.

The real reason it isn't so bad by the way is that wolves aren't that bad in the long run.They are not the cause of herd declines or gains. They are an indicator. They go up and down with prey populations. And there is usually a little lag time involved. They are just like prey animals in that they need food to survive. If they really wiped out prey populations, they'd be doing themselves in. Nature has checks and balances that prevent that. Only one species has a tendency to get around nature's checks and balances. And that is man.

[CAMPMEAT]

What I'm talking about is you're hedging on how much damage wolves have really done in Idaho. According to Wolfbait, it's almost total annihilation. Now you guys are trying to tell me why it really isn't so bad in Idaho.

The real reason it isn't so bad by the way is that wolves aren't that bad in the long run.They are not the cause of herd declines or gains. They are an indicator. They go up and down with prey populations. And there is usually a little lag time involved. They are just like prey animals in that they need food to survive. If they really wiped out prey populations, they'd be doing themselves in. Nature has checks and balances that prevent that. Only one species has a tendency to get around nature's checks and balances. And that is man.

Call the Idaho Fish and Game and see what the say. I've talked to them and they blame the wolves 100%.

[KFhunter]

What I'm talking about is you're hedging on how much damage wolves have really done in Idaho. According to Wolfbait, it's almost total annihilation. Now you guys are trying to tell me why it really isn't so bad in Idaho.

The real reason it isn't so bad by the way is that wolves aren't that bad in the long run.They are not the cause of herd declines or gains. They are an indicator. They go up and down with prey populations. And there is usually a little lag time involved. They are just like prey animals in that they need food to survive. If they really wiped out prey populations, they'd be doing themselves in. Nature has checks and balances that prevent that. Only one species has a tendency to get around nature's checks and balances. And that is man.

the wolves move to domestics, next thing you know your kids are waiting for the bus in cages.

http://www.abqjournal.com/news/state/266402nm12-02-07.htm
LAS CRUCES— Catron County parents say they're just concerned about the safety of their children.
    Animal activists say it's an overreaction.
    Reserve Independent Schools is building wolf-proof shelters for school bus stops in southwest New Mexico, where the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has reintroduced the Mexican gray wolf.


http://americansforprosperity.org/california/legislativealerts/outrageous-kid-cages-at-school-bus-stops/
California – Americans for Prosperity calls for reform of the Endangered Species Act.

The Endangered Species Act has been transformed from a balanced conservation policy to an instrument used to pursue radical environmental agendas. Abuses of the Act have led to thousands of job losses, hundreds of terminated projects, and countless invasions of private property rights. State’s rights should not be infringed upon through the ESA’s broad applications of the Commerce Clause. In addition, plants and animals, not in danger of extinction, shouldn’t be granted rights that impede business, industry, and American prosperity.



Read more: http://americansforprosperity.org/california/legislativealerts/outrageous-kid-cages-at-school-bus-stops/#ixzz2i2rEyvLt

http://www.gilbertwatch.com/gilbertwatch/index.cfm/blog/wolves-devastate-arizonas-animals-and-economy-and-force-children-into-cages/
Wolves Devastate Arizona's Animals and Economy, and Force Children into Cages