Mule Deer size question

[wafisherman]

Being new to deer hunting, I don't have a long history to look back and compare my own notes.   Just a 4x4 idaho mule deer last year, and then my WA 4x4 mule deer from this year.  But in just looking at some of the posts on here, it seems to me that many guys are finding some BIG mule deer this year.  I'm not talking about antlers, but about sheer size and weight.

Does this seem to be a bigger year for deer than usual?  I know my cousin told me the area we hunted in Idaho was known for smaller mule deer.  So maybe that is all I'm noticing.

Do our WA mule deer usually have such thick layers of fat?  My 6 inch boning knife when slide down the back strap pretty much disappeared into several inches of fast and then some thick meat.  It was crazy.  Even the rib cage has fat over 2 inches thick in many spots.  After quartering it and putting the parts in my extra large ice chest, my buddy and I struggled to get it into the house and into the kitchen.  And we aren't 90lb weaklings...  Sounds like I'm not the only one noticing a thick layer of fat.  Could this just be normal?  My Idaho mule deer last year was also a 4x4, but not nearly the same fat and amount of meat.  Maybe as much as 100lbs smaller in size.  I compared pics, and my WA mule deer is just a thick wide dude.  We nick named him 'Tubby'.  You could see not see even a hint of hip, rib, or other bone when he was laying there.  And this is a mountain deer.  Not some corn field farm land freak... 

Could it also point to an extra cold winter coming??

Anyway, probably just some ramblings of a newbie talking out loud, but thought I throw it out there anyway...

[lewy]

Did you happen to kill your Idaho buck post rut, they run alot of fat off chasing the ladies

[boneaddict]

Good foliage and little pressure on the fuel load with the population down equals good fat going into winter.  No the deer aren't bigger this year than normal really.   

[wafisherman]

Did you happen to kill your Idaho buck post rut, they run alot of fat off chasing the ladies

Nope - was mid October and pretty sure there wasn't a lot of lady chasing yet.

[wafisherman]

Good foliage and little pressure on the fuel load with the population down equals good fat going into winter.  No the deer aren't bigger this year than normal really.

Makes sense.  I definitely was seeing lot of good foliage where I was hunting.  And his stomach was stuffed.

[Pathfinder101]

Probably just coincidence, but the muley I killed this year was a tank.  Biggest bodied deer I have ever tried to manhandle into the back of my truck.  Usually, I can grab them by the antlers from the deer cart and with a little grunting and groaning wrestle them up into the bed.  Nothin' doing this year.  Took me almost an hour, 3 ropes and some geometry. 
When I got him to my buddys' place to skin him we hung him in the cooler with 3 other bucks.  He dwarfs them.  He does have a decent amount of fat on him, but that's not where the weight came from.  He's just built like a holstein.  Cut off at the joints, his back knees touch the ceiling and his front knees drag the floor of the walk in cooler. 
The guy in the picture of the carcass helped me hang it up.  He's a pretty big dude, over 6 feet. 

[coachcw]

why would you mess around for an hour ? cut him in half and throw him in and be gone !

[huntnphool]

In general, I have found Washington mule deer larger than Idaho and Montana deer over the years.

[Pathfinder101]

why would you mess around for an hour ? cut him in half and throw him in and be gone !

Good question.  Stubborn, I guess....

[lokidog]

Wow, you guys shoot some small deer....  My black-tailed "mule" deer was a whopping 101 lb hanging wieght with 26 pounds of guts.       

Mine had no fat on it at all this year, doesn't look good for the winter on the island.

[WAcoueshunter]

I've found that the size of WA mule deer can vary greatly from one area to another.  The biggest deer I've found are the migrating mountain bucks (Okanogan, Chelan, etc.), and there are some real hogs.  But the palouse and other flatland bucks are, on average, a lot smaller.  The biggest mountain bucks we've taken approach 300 lbs. field dressed.  The biggest palouse bucks I can remember are a solid 100 lbs. lighter.  Wouldn't doubt that the same holds true in Idaho, MT and elsewhere - migrating deer just need to be bigger to survive. 

[boneaddict]

I agree

[Snakeriver10]

The size of the deer has allot to do with what they eat and how much pressure they are encountering.  An old saying is allot of fat means a rough winter but allot of fat also means allot of feed was available.  Could be you just shot a young buck vs an old buck where the old one was eating allot and just not moving.  A desert mule deer vs a mountain mule deer would showcase the desert one being smaller for mass but not actually bone structure size.    So many variables are available to determine the size of the actual body.....

[huntnphool]

I've found that the size of WA mule deer can vary greatly from one area to another.  The biggest deer I've found are the migrating mountain bucks (Okanogan, Chelan, etc.), and there are some real hogs.  But the palouse and other flatland bucks are, on average, a lot smaller.  The biggest mountain bucks we've taken approach 300 lbs. field dressed.  The biggest palouse bucks I can remember are a solid 100 lbs. lighter.  Wouldn't doubt that the same holds true in Idaho, MT and elsewhere - migrating deer just need to be bigger to survive.

My reply should have been a bit more in detail I guess, I agree. All my Washington muleys are N. Central bucks.

Interestingly enough, my Montana and Idaho deer have eaten better though.

[boneaddict]

[coachcw]

boy he's a brute . look at those Canadian Bucks , just like there woman !

[Pathfinder101]

I've found that the size of WA mule deer can vary greatly from one area to another.  The biggest deer I've found are the migrating mountain bucks (Okanogan, Chelan, etc.), and there are some real hogs.  But the palouse and other flatland bucks are, on average, a lot smaller.  The biggest mountain bucks we've taken approach 300 lbs. field dressed.  The biggest palouse bucks I can remember are a solid 100 lbs. lighter.  Wouldn't doubt that the same holds true in Idaho, MT and elsewhere - migrating deer just need to be bigger to survive.

My reply should have been a bit more in detail I guess, I agree. All my Washington muleys are N. Central bucks.

Interestingly enough, my Montana and Idaho deer have eaten better though.

Could that have been the weather you killed them in?  The best eating deer we ever had was my Montana muley from 2010.  It was -20 when I killed him, had him gutted within 20 minutes of hitting the ground, and was frozen solid when we got him out the next day.  I know a lot of how a deer tastes has to do with how quickly you get him cool, and I think we set a world-record with that one.


Bone, I love that pic of that old Brahma Bull/ Mule Deer cross...

[lokidog]

Size differences could also relate to this: 

Bergmann's rule

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 Bergmann's rule is an ecogeographic principle that states that within a broadly distributed taxonomic clade, populations and species of larger size are found in colder environments, and species of smaller size are found in warmer regions. Although originally formulated in terms of species within a genus, it has often been recast in terms of populations within a species. It is also often cast in terms of latitude. The rule is named after nineteenth-century German biologist Carl Bergmann, who described the pattern in 1847, though he was not the first to notice it. Bergmann's rule is most often applied to mammals and birds which are endotherms, but some researchers have also found evidence for the rule in studies of ectothermic species[1][2] such as the ant Leptothorax acervorum. While Bergmann's rule appears to hold true for many mammals and birds, there are exceptions.[3][4][5]
 
There seems to be a tendency for larger-bodied animals to conform more closely than smaller-bodied animals, at least up to certain latitudes, perhaps reflecting a reduced ability to avoid stressful environments by burrowing or other means.[6] In addition to being a general pattern across space, Bergmann’s rule has been reported in populations over historical and evolutionary time when exposed to varying thermal regimes.[7][8][9]


Bold emphasis is mine.  Also, increasing latitude and increasing altitude can result in similar environmental differences.

[WAcoueshunter]

Just cuz I love this photo, here's a North Central mountain buck. 

[wafisherman]

total stud deer. 

[huntnphool]

Here is a nice Methow Valley buck.

[boneaddict]

I love mountain deer.   

[boneaddict]

here is a calendar buck from last year, opposite of those texas deer that look like their antlers are huge but its because they are the size of dogs.....

[ICEMAN]

A mature muley can sure get big. A few years back we had three hanging in our camp and one of those boys was twice the size of the others. I kept saying it was "half an elk". I remember comparing the hearts of all three. The mature muley's heart was over twice the size of the other two deer.

[Pathfinder101]

here is a calendar buck from last year, opposite of those texas deer that look like their antlers are huge but its because they are the size of dogs.....

agreed.  Those are the kind of deer that score way better than you think they will because the head and body make the antlers look "small".  Love seeing the pics of those NFL Linebacker deer.  Keep 'em comin'...

[wafisherman]

I like the direction this has gone.  We sure have some awesome deer in this state. 

Speaking of the heart, I was showing the kids my deer's heart as I got the hamburger bin going.  It was the size if my 5yr olds head!  I held it to my chest and explained to them that we have a heart in our chests like this. But I'm sure it was hard for them to envision since it seemed to take up that whole side of my chest.

I have a friend from my church who wanted to do a European mount for me.  Should be fun to see how it turns out.  My 10yr old who was on the hunt with me wants it above his bed

[boneaddict]

That's the kind of Bling that a ten year old should be interested in.   I hope it turns out well.   

[Buckmark]

I would imagine some of it also has to do with genetics just like with humans, that larger bucks produce larger offspirng. I have hunted, killed and been in camps that killed mutliple bucks in a few different states and sizes vary but age class was real close or the same. Bucks off the same mountian vary...

[huntnphool]

here is a calendar buck from last year, opposite of those texas deer that look like their antlers are huge but its because they are the size of dogs.....

[boneaddict]

Probably similar to standing me next to a majority of Huntwa members, especially the likes of say Bucklucky.

I would imagine some of it also has to do with genetics just like with humans, that larger bucks produce larger offspirng. I have hunted, killed and been in camps that killed mutliple bucks in a few different states and sizes vary but age class was real close or the same. Bucks off the same mountian vary...

[huntnphool]

Probably similar to standing me next to a majority of Huntwa members, especially the likes of say Bucklucky.

LMAO