2pts galore

[Sitka_Blacktail]

You don't see those big Texas ranches and other places where they try to improve their buck antler genetics having hunters kill management bucks (older bucks that don't measure up) for nothing. Evidently they believe they can change the antler confirmation of their deer herds by selective harvest of weak antler gened bucks. They seem to be having success in their endeavors. If that works, the opposite also works. Use your head.

[boneaddict]

I'm pretty sure Texas' model wont work here, so use your head, preferably comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.   I suppose you think AK will have smaller moose because of a 50 inch minimum.

[Jonathan_S]

Time to implement a slot limit on deer   

Three point minimum, four point maximum.  I guess there are plenty of bucks that would be a 2x2 at 1.5 years and a 3x4 or 4x4 with an eyeguard or two at 2.5

We could apply this to elk too.

3 pt minimum and 5 pt maximum.  But do eyeguards count?   

You don't see those big Texas ranches and other places where they try to improve their buck antler genetics having hunters kill management bucks (older bucks that don't measure up) for nothing. Evidently they believe they can change the antler confirmation of their deer herds by selective harvest of weak antler gened bucks. They seem to be having success in their endeavors. If that works, the opposite also works. Use your head.

But really, do you think that the best genes are being killed out?

[Sitka_Blacktail]

I'm pretty sure Texas' model wont work here, so use your head, preferably comparing apples to apples instead of apples to oranges.   I suppose you think AK will have smaller moose because of a 50 inch minimum.

No, Alaska has a two pronged rule. Spike/fork bulls are allowed which is around 40% of the yearling class. This allows 60% (if they aren't illegally shot) to get a few years under their belt breeding before they are legal to take. But another rule allows the taking of bulls under 50" if they have 3 or 4 brow tines on one side. Interesting enough, there has been an increase in the number of bulls with only two brow tines if you can believe the hunters reporting it.

[boneaddict]

and then there are those pesky bucks that are spreading their poor genetics, yet perfectly legal to kill in this state......

[Ironhead]

During Mule Deer permit hunts, your not killing off a huge percentage of 3 point or better bucks, most permit hunts have very limited numbers so that this does not happen. The regular season, is an absolute hammering of 3 point or better bucks, this does affect the numbers of 3 point or better bucks, after the season begins because they are killed off. It doesn't hugely affect the gene pool because many of the 2 points will be nice mature 3 point or better bucks eventually, if they live that long. Also young 2 points are stupid compared to mature bucks, mature 2 points know they aren't getting shot at so they don't give a rip like some does.

[boneaddict]

Yep!

[bobdog86]

My nephews 2 x 3 (2x2 w/ eye guard on one side) muley measured 22" wide 18" high. There were 3  smooth 2x2's with him. I think the game department should offer an any buck draw for seniors or youths in these 3 point minimum units. where i hunt, i've some 2 points that make the one my nephew shot look small.

[boneaddict]

offer an any buck draw

   That's what is already offered.    I would suggest offering a two point only draw. (it certainly could be youth or senior) in fact I would encourage that.   As of right now I believe any of the permit hunters could bust a two if they wanted.  I thought seriously about notching on  another big two that I had been watching.

[Timberstalker]

offer an any buck draw

   That's what is already offered.    I would suggest offering a two point only draw. (it certainly could be youth or senior) in fact I would encourage that.   As of right now I believe any of the permit hunters could bust a two if they wanted.  I thought seriously about notching on  another big two that I had been watching.

They had 2ptx2pt only permits for a while.  I haven't checked but they still may.  These were mostly in Whitman County.

[DOUBLELUNG]

With the more open habitat conditions in Douglas,
the 3-point regulation is working well and has
increased total buck escapement. Prior to the
implementation of the 3-point restriction in Douglas,
buck escapement was low, estimated between 6-10
bucks:100 does. There are, however, concerns about
the long-term ramifications of poor recruitment of
older age bucks, as it appears most bucks are still being
harvested by 3.5 years of age. Due to the open nature
of this PMU, it is unlikely that age structure truncation
can be avoided under general modern firearms season
structure.

2006 Game Status and Trend Report.  We can kill all the antlered bucks with general any buck seasons, or have escapement of sublegal bucks with antler point restrictions.  When deer are vulnerable to harvest, general seasons greatly impact population structure.  Lots of two points is the result when in open country with nonmigratory deer and lots of roads, with general seasons and 3-point minimum restrictions.  This pretty much applies to mule deer in all the units east and south of the Columbia, south of the Spokane and north of the Snake Rivers.  Wherever there is open county with open roads on the section lines, even private land ownership can't effectively limit buck harvest.

This is not a bad model, since we (hunters) want general seasons, and many agricultural landowners don't want abundant deer herds.

[boneaddict]

 

[blackmouther]

Back when the eastside was any buck the harvest numbers weren't much different and a group of 6 2 pts was unheard of during rifle season.  On the other hand i would change it to spike or 3 point or better myself.  Many believe a spike doesn't have the branched antler gene and will always be a spike and when a spike breeds a doe that has strong branched genes the spawn may be a spike or 2x1.  Makes sense but i heard this from a rancher not a biologist.  His words were "i dont let my inferior bulls breed my cows i eat them".

[WA1232]

I think those two points hanging out with six buddies, are older and wiser 3 points the following season. They are just plain better at hiding and hard to hunt. Every year in the Blues we hunt dang hard to find a 3 point. We head back up during the deer rut, and find some really nice bucks to look at. They were there all season...we only found the 2 points.

[James E]

Same thing where I hunt. It's bad genes, you see huge Y bucks and you think there 4pts. 2 pts is all they will be.