CURRENTLY WDFW FEDERAL AGENTS SHOOTING 15 bulls in Skagit River Unit!!!!

[T-Dozzer]

Some of the places I had lined up for this archery cow draw are now falling through due to the owners bringing in master hunters.
Not sure what to think about this hunt anymore.

[Green broke]

Not saying any of that is a bad idea or would not work.

But I think that these land owners are so pissed and this has been dragged on for so  long they are just fed up.

First if I am a land owner I am saying look, the elk were not here when I bought my land. The state brought them in. Why do I have to put up with elk?
They bought there land for the quiet, now they have to have hunters on their property to solve the states created problem.

Elk break down fences and do damage year round. This herd is on the valley floor all year. You can see them in June driving the hwy way. Sure some go up. Also remember this is not just hwy 20. These elk are in Acme area too.

This is a huge problem. In the end the only solution will be kill every elk on the valley floor   Which will destroy this herd.

I talked to a old timer the other day. He said we never had trouble with the elk when Scott Paper Main Line was open to the public. And thus the crust of the problem.

The road closures both on Serra Pacific(old Scott Paper) and DNR lands have made this problem worse. When the roads were open and the herd was hunted no problems.

I think the hunting solution will only work with public access being improved. The state should try to get SP lands open for a two week elk season. And the DNR needs to stop closing roads. Coupled with pressure on the valley floor.

And what role do the safety zones play in all this. Hurn's Field just lures the elk to the valley floor.

What timeline are you referring to when the valley floor was void of elk? Maybe consult the hay farmers on the island and ask if the elk have always been there.  Adding pressure to the tree farm would decrease the impact on the fields? Seriously?  You don't know elk that well if that's your belief. They respond to pressure by seeking safe refuge, period.

[Green broke]

To everyone blaming tribes in any way for this you are wrong.  The tribes were not notified or consulted about this.  It seems many members just want to blame Indians for all that's wrong with wildlife.  It's amazing it's our fault there's no elk it's our fault there's too many elk. I keep hearing members say they are our elk and the state hunters aren't getting to hunt, meanwhile the state is harvesting elk at a 4 to 1 rate to tribal in this area.

[pianoman9701]

Some of the places I had lined up for this archery cow draw are now falling through due to the owners bringing in master hunters.
Not sure what to think about this hunt anymore.

You might contact the regional DFW office and ask for farmer's names who have complaints on file so you might approach them. Just a thought.

[pianoman9701]

[quote author=pianoman9701 link=topic=138062.msg1839984#msg1839984 date=1383252
Apparently, because of the court of public opinion, that sounds like a no-shooting zone already. What am I missing here?

Are the 78 permit holders and master hunters using sticks?

"This year, Fish and Wildlife expanded the regional elk hunting season and boundaries and increased the number of tags available. It streamlined the master hunter program that matches hunters with landowners enduring property damage and has issued 78 damage permits in Skagit and Whatcom counties."
[/quote]

You're cutting and pasting from two different responses, so as you posted it, my comment is used completely out of context. My comment  "Apparently, because of the court of public opinion, that sounds like a no-shooting zone already. What am I missing here?" was in reference to your post which cited that a hunt had been put on hold due to negative comments received.  It had nothing to do with any number of permits issued or used. As a matter of fact, the number of permits issued or used is of little significance. The fact that elk are being killed by other-than hunters is the issue I have here. Any elk not killed by hunters is opportunity lost for hunters.

[PlateauNDN]

Bob, I don't think I understand your question. Are you saying you think it's possible that the Federal government took action regarding our state's wildlife without the DFW's cooperation or knowledge? If that's where you're coming from, I don't think that's even remotely possible. The feds will rarely take any action without the appropriate state agency at least getting a heads up, if not full participation in the operation.

Not at all. What I am saying is that WDFW is very aware of the negative public perception that can result from shooting elk. Organized hunters of any sort, versus essentially "hired professional exterminators" can play differently in the public's eye when it comes to removing numbers of problem wildlfe. I am in no way saying that I am in agreement with bringing in snipers. I am saying that I don't believe the decision was made lightly, nor was it done without any regard for licensed hunters.

All licensed hunting was stopped during the 2009 season because of the worldwide condemnation that resulted with the archery shootings that occurred off Highway 20. I believe the department is still very sensitive about what they do to cull the herd.

Sorry im a little late on this post, but the biggest issue the dfw faces and is very sensitive about are the INDIANS!! The Indians didn't want the "white man" shooting all "there elk" which raised too many problems between the dfw and the tribes which resulted in this fiasco!! They wouldn't give any land owner tags (damage) nor a drawing for bull tags because of the Indians! There entitled to 50% of all the elk....right....

It's way more complex than that. I don't think you know how many kill permits have been issued, but keep throwing blame around. A very uneducated comment.

I sure know how many were issued on the day creek area.. where this whole topic was based off of.....So I would consider that a little on the educated side......

As a matter of fact you're quite late to the debate.  This debacle/hunt or whatever it is titled is taking place by the WDFW and the US Dept. of Ag.  No where has it come up that the Tribes are responsible or taking part in this mess.  I've followed this thread and have yet to an instance where any State Representative, State Employee or anybody else for that matter can say Tribes are involved and it's the Tribes fault that the elks' damage to private property is the fault of any Tribe.

By following this thread many scenarios have come to light and one I keep reading is that many landowners are not allowing tag holders or MHs' the opportunity to come onto their property and harvest an elk or elks for that matter.  Another one is the State/WDFW decided they would contract the culling of elk in an effort to keep this elk herd from continuing to cause damage.

Also, the debacle/incident in 09 that was mentioned at the top involved MHs' and not Tribal Members.  Get your facts straight before you start to lay blame on an incident that has nothing to do with Tribes.

On another note, I also acknowledge the argument that you have with Tribes and aware of the frustrations and dealings and fully understand the continuing situation between the State and Tribes.  This situation however, is not the fault of the Tribes.

[Special T]

Plat, one small correction it was GENERAL archery in the 09 issue on Johnsons farm not Master hunters. 

[Widgeondeke]

here is the reply I received today from Sen Steve Hobbs



Floyd,


Thanks for taking the time to contact me regarding WDFW bringing in hired guns to kill elk in the Skagit area.  After contacting WDFW this is what they sent me:

 

Because we have received several inquiries on elk conflict in Snohomish County, staff has prepared the following to help with legislative and constituent requests for information. 

 

The following is an update on the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife’s, Wildlife Program activities over the past few months that are aimed at addressing elk-related agricultural conflicts in Skagit Valley. Included is an update on recent activity regarding responding to elk damage the Day Creek area of the Skagit Valley.

 

Community Meetings

 

The North Cascades Elk Management Work Group has met  twice and the four committees (Damage, Public Safety, Habitat Enhancement, Survey and Monitoring) have each met at least once (Damage Committee has met three times). The proposed meeting schedule for the work group is quarterly, while the working committees have agreed to meet on a monthly basis.

 

Some of these meetings have been challenging, with many landowners expressing their frustration with elk, economic damages they have incurred, and dis-satisfaction with the department’s ability to address this situation. On the positive side, a less vocal minority has been thankful for the opportunity to work collaboratively with the department. These individuals continue to attend Work Group and Committee meetings with the intent of advising the department on the development of an elk herd plan that balances the values and interests of all citizens of the area. Additionally, a contingent of the Point Elliott Tribes continues to be engaged in this process.

 

Changes to the 2013 Hunting Regulations

 

Prior to the hunting season, several changes were made to the hunting regulations to address ongoing elk-related agricultural conflicts. These include:

•       Expansion of Elk Area 4941 boundary to include more areas with ongoing damage issues

•       20 new antlerless “draw only” elk tags in Skagit Valley elk conflict area (Elk Area 4941)

•       Pooling of two separate master hunter groups to streamline coordination of 30 master hunters

•       Inclusion of Skagit Valley elk conflict area (Elk Area 4941) in hunt area for GMU 418 bull tag holders

•       Addition of early and late muzzleloader seasons in GMU 407 to address elk damage in the Acme area

•       Extension of season dates and liberalized antler restrictions for archery seasons in GMU 407 to address elk damage in the Acme area

 

Hunter Coordination

 

As in past years, Wildlife Program staff met with Game Management Unit 418 bull tag hunters in August. Because the hunt area was expanded in 2013 to include Elk Area 4941, WDFW staff emphasized that this was an opportunity to harvest a quality bull while helping the department address elk conflict issues. Staff committed to help put hunters in touch with landowners that are having elk damage. As a result, several bull tag holders have contacted local landowners to secure permission to hunt private properties in Elk Area 4941. A minimum of three bulls have been harvested in Elk Area 4941 by these tag holders so far.

 

Wildlife Program staff contacted the 20 archery and muzzleloader antlerless tag holders for Elk Area 4941. Staff directed hunters to areas with chronic elk damage and specific landowners who are experiencing damage. At this time, it is unclear how many of the 10 early season hunters were able to harvest elk in Elk Area 4941.

 

Wildlife Program staff continue to work closely with a community based volunteer master hunt coordinator to assign hunters to specific properties as needed. Among the 30 hunters available, 13 have been assigned to properties. Eight of these have harvested an elk, while five are still hunting. 

 

Damage Permits

 

Since Wildlife Program staff assumed the responsibility of Wildlife Conflicts in July, staff has been issuing elk damage permits – primarily in Skagit Valley within Elk Area 4941. For the calendar year, a total of 68 damage permits have been issued to landowners in Skagit and Whatcom Counties and 22 elk have been harvested as follows:

 

•       GMU 418: 20 permits issued, 5 elk killed (4 cow/1 bull)

•       GMU 437: 58 permits issued, 20 elk killed (17 cow/3 bull)

 

While many Point Elliott Tribes are working with the department to address elk damage issues, department staff has struggled to get tribal hunters assigned to private properties. Many landowners refuse to allow tribal hunters on their properties. To date, hunters from the Upper Skagit, Sauk-Suiattle, Stillaguamish, and Swinomish Tribes have been assigned to properties in Elk Area 4941. Four elk (included in totals above) have been killed by tribal hunters.

 

Day Creek Focus Area

 

Several landowners in the Day Creek area have become extremely intolerant of elk and are frustrated with the department’s efforts to date. They are particularly concerned about the disproportionate number of bulls in the area and are frustrated that the damage permits have been focused on antlerless elk. 

 

Region 4 staff has met on several occasions to develop ways to address these issues. Examples include herding and hazing, issuing damage hunting permits and directing master hunters and other licensed hunters to the Day Creek area. In addition, a pilot project, launched in late September, resulted in a permit for multiple Day Creek landowners and allowed for the removal of six elk (four of these being “any elk”). To date, one cow and two bulls have been killed under this permit.

 

While the above hunting efforts have resulted in several elk being killed, additional removal of elk is necessary to bring elk numbers to a level that would help reduce damage to crops and property. Because the elk in this area have become even more nocturnal than normal due to the hunting efforts, it was decided to try removal actions at night. To move forward in a safe and efficient manner, federal wildlife officials from the Wildlife Service’s branch of USDA have been assisting in an effort to remove elk where damage to the landowners’ crops has been substantial. Any elk that could be safely killed were targeted and this collaborative effort has to-date resulted in the removal of 4 bull elk. WDFW has a contract with Wildlife Services for the removal of up to 15 elk. Removing these animals in the Skagit River bottom will not have an adverse effect on the North Cascades elk population, which totals nearly 1,200 to 1,400 animals and continues to grow each year.

 

Elk meat has been and will continue to be donated to local tribes and local food banks.

 

Cooperative Fencing

 

Wildlife Program staff has identified four potential fencing projects with willing landowners experiencing chronic elk damage. Contract language is being developed for two, negotiations for shared funding resources and specifications are underway for another, while the remaining project requires further development with the landowner. The amount of department funding available for fencing projects is not sufficient for all of these projects. So, Wildlife Program staff has proposed that the North Cascades Elk Damage Committee help develop some ranking criteria to help prioritize fencing projects. Until a ranking system is developed, Wildlife Program staff will implement fencing projects based on existing priorities until funding is expended.

 

Hopefully this update provides some perspective on the situation and the current approach the Region 4 Wildlife Program staff is taking to address this issue.

 

It appears that WDFW are doing what they can to focus hunting pressure on this area and lethally remove elk from agricultural areas. At the same time, they are engaging the community in a process that they hope will ultimately lead to a balanced approach to managing this population of elk. They have told me they will continue to engage the Point Elliott Tribes to, as co-managers, encourage their partnership in addressing this aspect of big game management. Thanks for bringing this to my attention Floyd and please feel free to contact me again if I can be of any further assistance.

 

Take care,

Steve

[h2ofowlr]

They had a write up and explanation on this in today's Skagit new paper.   

[KFhunter]

They had a write up and explanation on this in today's Skagit new paper.   

Pretty well killed this thread too

[Humptulips]

Been following the thread but have not chimed in because I don't know the area. What does gall me and I think others is we were 6 days from General Modern Elk in W WA and they kill bulls. Bad enough Wildlife Services was used but then it seems like WDFW doesn't want anyone to tag out.

Now my solution. It seems like reading this the elk are a problem. Shooting 20 elk over a couple months is not going to solve it. The elk need to be under constant pressure in the fields or fewer elk and probably both. I would think they could write permits on a limited time frame, maybe one or two a week. One hunter gets a permit for a week then the next guy and keep that up for at least 8 months. Time out for calving is the exception.
You'll kill enough elk so there will be less problems and if you harass the elk every day and kill one regularly maybe they learn to stay in the woods. And make it any elk. It is BS to write cow permits and then pay WS to shoot bulls.

WDFW is trying to do two things that are in opposition to each other, increase or sustain the elk population and decrease damage. That will fail.

I will say this though no matter what is done somebody will not like it.

[full strutting]

Yes wdfw has snipers, master hunters, local Indian tribe and land owners involved in their removal of elk. Within which had been funded to increase elk skagits herd. Sounds like to me a waste of tax payers money