Timber wolves in 407 GMU

[DeArBuCK4me]

So here is an interesting thing---during the last days of late season I met an old hunter in unit 407 up in the mountain and he told me that our government has introduced wolves in this unit with out telling the public.
Do you believe this? [/b]
he claims to have evidence.
Didn't appear to me like he was joking.
It would explain why so few deer? IDK

[Jonathan_S]

I would like to see the evidence but I wouldn't be necessarily surprised if it were true.

I think the cougar population is the main reason for the low deer population up there.  It was astounding to me how few deer we saw there several years back.

[pianoman9701]

No
Show it
He may not be joking, just uninformed or worse. 
There may be wolves. Whether they were transplanted by the gubmint is another story altogether.

[D-Rock425]

I wish they would put some wolves right in the heart of the unit.  It would be a real eye opener for the wolf lovers when their pets end up as chew toys.

[B-Nut]

While I haven't seen any actual proof of this in the 418 I saw an older lady driving pretty deep into the woods with two large kennels that had some large "huskies" in them. Wasn't sure what to make of it as she went farther than we went.

[jackelope]

Yet another person who claims to have evidence but in actuality, probably doesn't. That's my useless opinion.

A couple wolves is not going to explain a total lack of deer, especially in an area like you're talking about. Maybe an impact on the herd over in the Methow or a place like that, but not in Western Washington.

While I haven't seen any actual proof of this in the 418 I saw an older lady driving pretty deep into the woods with two large kennels that had some large "huskies" in them. Wasn't sure what to make of it as she went farther than we went.

 
There's a huge, obvious, unmistakeable difference between a husky and a wolf.
 

[seth30]

I like D rocks idea

[DeArBuCK4me]

While I haven't seen any actual proof of this in the 418 I saw an older lady driving pretty deep into the woods with two large kennels that had some large "huskies" in them. Wasn't sure what to make of it as she went farther than we went.

The old lady was a game warden in disguise....the huskys were the wolves...I knew it!!

[DeArBuCK4me]

While I haven't seen any actual proof of this in the 418 I saw an older lady driving pretty deep into the woods with two large kennels that had some large "huskies" in them. Wasn't sure what to make of it as she went farther than we went.

Game wardens are dressing now like old ladys and planting wolves in the bush....

[b0bbyg]

Just curious was he stating "timber wolves" or just wolves.

I was under the impression that all the ones around ID, OR, WA were Gray wolves which are larger than the ones that were native years back.

Not to stir the pot just curious what he was actually claiming.

[D-Rock425]

I may be wrong but I thought Timberwolves were larger than grays . 

[Special T]

There ARE wolves in the N 407 and 418. I have seen 4 of them right off  hwy 9 by a quarter mile then had the reference of a coyote. 4 wolves 100yards coyote 25 yards. Wolves have been in 418 for a long time, however i think they are likely the "native" ones not the imports from Makesny Valley via ID. There is game but since the advent of no hound hunting bears and cougars have been allowed to explode. Every redneck from Sedro to Sumas had a toyota with a dog box. Now the are much fewer.

[wildweeds]

My buddy was one of them guys,had 13 cat dogs,he ran bear with them too but he selected and culled for good cat dogs.They were pretty good,when the ban came down the game department  was always knocking on his door to "borrow" the dogs to deal with problem cats.He did it a few times and then told em to get out of his yard,he wasnt feeding them for the state to borrow for free.

There ARE wolves in the N 407 and 418. I have seen 4 of them right off  hwy 9 by a quarter mile then had the reference of a coyote. 4 wolves 100yards coyote 25 yards. Wolves have been in 418 for a long time, however i think they are likely the "native" ones not the imports from Makesny Valley via ID. There is game but since the advent of no hound hunting bears and cougars have been allowed to explode. Every redneck from Sedro to Sumas had a toyota with a dog box. Now the are much fewer.

[b0bbyg]

I may be wrong but I thought Timberwolves were larger than grays .

You could be right, I was hoping someone knew for sure. There have been lots of guys on this and other sites that have put in a bit of research on the matter.

I'm down in the SW parts of the state so have not bumped one of these guys yet. Hope its a few more years before it happens.

[Heredoggydoggy]

Wait until you go to one of your favorite hunting areas, as I did a while back, and see NOTHING!  Not a deer or coyote track, where the year before it was like a game "yard".  I didn't believe a guy that lives near there when he told me that the wolves got everything, but he was right.  There was a 3-day old coat of snow there, and on the way in and out, I used to see numerous tracks where game animals crossed the road.  This time nothing! 

[mulehunter]

 

[DeArBuCK4me]

Just curious was he stating "timber wolves" or just wolves.

I was under the impression that all the ones around ID, OR, WA were Gray wolves which are larger than the ones that were native years back.

Not to stir the pot just curious what he was actually claiming.

So yes he was very specific TIMBER WOLVES. he told me that this wolves are huge and he has the evidence...we met for a few minutes and off we went our separate ways.. what I gather from all the conversations here is that the old hunter knows what he is talking about...he has been hunting the area for a long time and even said he used to fish Saar creek but someone planted hybrids( hatchery fish) in it and they killed the cutthroats.

[Jonathan_S]

Is anyone else picturing a full grown timberwolf in frickin dog kennel right now 

[Desert_Rez]

My hunting grounds (133 Roosevelt) have been hit pretty hard by cougar.  I suspect making cat hunting with dogs illegal could be to blame for a lot of the wolf predation rumors.

[Special T]

When you protect ALL predators  deer and elk numbers are going to fall. 

[wildweeds]

When you protect ALL predators  deer and elk numbers are going to fall. 

don't take a wildlife biology degree to know this,just good old common sense.And that can't be taught.Free range 100 chickens in a woodlot and see how many chickens are left in a month.Same science  experiment as deer/elk vs cougar/wolves on the adults and cougar/bear/wolves and coyotes on the younguns in the spring.

[B-Nut]

Didn't know you needed to be a game warden to release an animal

I guess there are no enviromental activists in this state that might take it upon themselves to reintroduce an animal.

[Skyvalhunter]

Once again under speculation the WDFW nor Feds can introduce wolves into Washington. Any wolves here migrated from Canada, Idaho, Mt but were never introduced or reintroduced.

[Birddogman]

I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too.  Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO).  Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary.  Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed.  Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf.........

[jackelope]

Is anyone else picturing a full grown timberwolf in frickin dog kennel right now 

Being hauled down the road in a Cherokee piloted by an 83 year old little old lady.

[JackOfAllTrades]

I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too.  Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO).  Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary.  Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed.  Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf.........

Bears kill a lot of fawns. Yotes kill deer, and since Sierra Pacific won't allow anyone through the gates to hunt either, there are going to be predator kills. Cats are on the rise. I don't care what WDFW says! Yes, there are a few Greys in 418, (over the years, I've seen a few), and I wouldn't be surprised at a few in 407 in the foot hills and above. But there haven't been signs in the lowlands of 407.
 
-Steve

[DeArBuCK4me]

I love the majestic gray wolf at the end of my gun barrel.....

[B-Nut]

Being hauled down the road in a Cherokee piloted by an 83 year old little old lady.

Lol, when I say older I mean 40 to 50 you old farts  .

[TommyH]

The timber wolves are samller than the BIG BAD Canadian grey wolf.

[furiouzgeorge]

I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too.  Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO).  Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary.  Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed.  Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf.........

Bears kill a lot of fawns. Yotes kill deer, and since Sierra Pacific won't allow anyone through the gates to hunt either, there are going to be predator kills. Cats are on the rise. I don't care what WDFW says! Yes, there are a few Greys in 418, (over the years, I've seen a few), and I wouldn't be surprised at a few in 407 in the foot hills and above. But there haven't been signs in the lowlands of 407.
 
-Steve

I hunted behind Sierra Pacific gates a month ago. Do you mean the gates are closed to vehicle traffic or closed for any traffic?

[DeArBuCK4me]

I have heard them in 418, but 407 is a real possibility too.  Low deer numbers would seem to be more of a wolf problem than a cougar (JMO).  Cougar may go 3-5 day without a meal and often they are solitary.  Dog pack has a lot of mouths to feed.  Either way the wolf numbers will increase in our state, too many voters on the westside love the majestic Gray wolf.........

Bears kill a lot of fawns. Yotes kill deer, and since Sierra Pacific won't allow anyone through the gates to hunt either, there are going to be predator kills. Cats are on the rise. I don't care what WDFW says! Yes, there are a few Greys in 418, (over the years, I've seen a few), and I wouldn't be surprised at a few in 407 in the foot hills and above. But there haven't been signs in the lowlands of 407.
 
-Steve

I hunted behind Sierra Pacific gates a month ago. Do you mean the gates are closed to vehicle traffic or closed for any traffic?

Just curious now---are you the guy who was yelling at us for taking out ATV up the hill on opening day of early season? all is cool if you are. I know you you said you were sorry later on.

[JackOfAllTrades]

When those portions of 418 were owned by Crown Pacific, we could drive/camp on that land for weeks at a time. Since those gates are closed, there's a LOT LES hunting going on in those units. Bears, Cats....  The varmints have been thriving on the deer and elk populations. I think that wolves in 407 is a stretch but I wouldn't be surprised that someone would catch glimpse of a wanderer in the eastern fringes. More realistic would be 437 or the park.  As far as any Timber Wolves in our state, I'd highly doubt it. DFW doesn't always do what we think should be correct, but that would be completely nutz!
 
-Steve

[undertoad]

Timber wolves and gray wolves are all the same species.

[Special T]

Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me  . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf!  YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda  IMO.

[Birddogman]

Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me  . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf!  YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda  IMO.

 

[BOWHUNTER45]

I am sure they are around ... Seen tracks in 418 and that was about 15 yrs ago  Way back in the sticks ,,,when I could actually go there 

[furiouzgeorge]

No yelling from me. If i had yelled i wouldnt have apologized because I would have been right!

All kidding aside, where my son and I were is closed to motor vehicles.

[Bob33]

Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me  . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf!  YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda  IMO.

Many consider them the same.

http://www.dnr.state.mn.us/rsg/profile.html?action=elementDetail&selectedElement=AMAJA01030

"Prior to European settlement, the gray wolf, sometimes called the timber wolf, inhabited most of North America south to at least 20° latitude (Mech 1995)."

http://www.nwf.org/wildlife/wildlife-library/mammals/gray-wolf.aspx

"The gray or timber wolf's story is one of the most compelling tales of American wildlife. "

http://www.timberwolfinformation.org/kidsonly/wolfweb/wolf1.htm

"Timber wolves, also called gray wolves, are the largest wild members of the dog family."

http://www.livescience.com/27909-wolves.html

"The gray wolf (Canis lupus lycaon), also known as the timber wolf, is the largest wild member of the dog family."


etc.

[undertoad]

Undertoad, they may be the same SPECIES but not the same sub species. This is part of the big LIE that makes me  . It is claimed that Northern McKennsy Grey wolves are the SAME as the Native rocky Mt wolf... When the discrepancies are shown the USFS claims a wolf is a wolf!  YET right now Mexican RED wolves are considered a subspecies that need special protection in the SW. This double standard shows the agenda  IMO.

 

I don't mean to be argumentative, but where I grew up in MN and WI, the terms "gray wolf" and "timber wolf" were both used  interchangeably and did not indicate any particular subspecies. The wolves were never really extirpated from those areas, so I believe that is correct usage of the two terms. If you mean some subspecies from the Mackenzie, then you should specify that. That is all I meant to point out.

[Special T]

Yes toad that is exactly what i mean... It seems the feds get to use the "sub species" argument when it fits their need, but ignore it when it does not. You have any idea what the fine is if you or I bring in an "Invasive Species" and let it into the wild?

[DeArBuCK4me]

If you work for the feds 0 but if we got caught.....
probably prison time plus fine.