Kind of neat

[AspenBud]

http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2013/nov/24/ladiers-earn-national-top-dog-field-trial-title/

[bracer40]

Cool story. Nice to see locals win something like this.

[Sportfury]

Pretty cool. They live down the hill from me.

[pianoman9701]

Are they members of the forum?

[KFhunter]

“She was beautiful on point and a good hunting dog, but it was a while before she took off.”

something to remember huh?

[Happy Gilmore]

Very cool. Another local won the GSP National last year. Got first and third place. Larry lives in Badger Pocket now. Trains with Trina. Dan has nice dogs. Planted birds at a trail two years ago in Sunnyside for the club.

[wildweeds]

Schwerdt?

Very cool. Another local won the GSP National last year. Got first and third place. Larry lives in Badger Pocket now. Trains with Trina. Dan has nice dogs. Planted birds at a trail two years ago in Sunnyside for the club.

[Happy Gilmore]

Schwerdt?

Very cool. Another local won the GSP National last year. Got first and third place. Larry lives in Badger Pocket now. Trains with Trina. Dan has nice dogs. Planted birds at a trail two years ago in Sunnyside for the club.

Yes, Am National of some sort- not sure there are too many different ones in the Pointer world..lol- Retrievers have one and thousands of dogs compete to qualify. One big azz playoff. Pointers, national this, chukar national that, Ames here, championship series, bird dog challenge there.. Too many to keep straight.

[wildweeds]

Schwerdts thing was the english setter nationals which has a very low entry and is more of a stake for Jerrys kids,20-25 dogs entered is about the average for it,it's only 45 minutes and there's a bunch of nonsense monkey buisness with microchips and DNA on file in order to run in it.Larry's a nice guy but the dog he ran ain't that good when you compare it against the Palmers dog.Arnies about 8 years old and Max is YOUNG.Premium performance out of a young dog shows quality,continuing to campaign an older dog tells you one thing,it wasn't very good young and if it's still not gotten it's FC it's still not good,Trena still runs half a dozen dogs that are 7-10 years old that have nothing more than a derby placement or one broke dog placement.Theres a certain amount of luck in it and the amount of luck you need is far less with a stellar individual.

The parent club for the english is governed by and directed by women of the showring,bullheadedness is why the thing will continue to be considered a joke.

Schwerdt?

Very cool. Another local won the GSP National last year. Got first and third place. Larry lives in Badger Pocket now. Trains with Trina. Dan has nice dogs. Planted birds at a trail two years ago in Sunnyside for the club.

Yes, Am National of some sort- not sure there are too many different ones in the Pointer world..lol- Retrievers have one and thousands of dogs compete to qualify. One big azz playoff. Pointers, national this, chukar national that, Ames here, championship series, bird dog challenge there.. Too many to keep straight.

[jetjockey]

Schwerdt?

Very cool. Another local won the GSP National last year. Got first and third place. Larry lives in Badger Pocket now. Trains with Trina. Dan has nice dogs. Planted birds at a trail two years ago in Sunnyside for the club.

Yes, Am National of some sort- not sure there are too many different ones in the Pointer world..lol- Retrievers have one and thousands of dogs compete to qualify. One big azz playoff. Pointers, national this, chukar national that, Ames here, championship series, bird dog challenge there.. Too many to keep straight.

It's actually really easy.  On the AF side here is one, on the AK side there's 121, with 150 different formats.....   Oops.  I forgot, the GSP's have an AF Nationals and an AKC Nationals.  So hat makes 2 different AF Nationals.  Us the GSP's have An Amateur, Gun Dog, and All age Nationals..  Oh he'll, never mind, confuses the hell out of me as well..

With all that said, the Brittany Amateur Nationals started today in Booneville AR.  I don't think there are any dogs from WA but there's a couple from OR and ID entered.  There's 43 in the Amateur and 65 in the Open. 

[AspenBud]

Oops.  I forgot, the GSP's have an AF Nationals and an AKC Nationals.  So hat makes 2 different AF Nationals.  Us the GSP's have An Amateur, Gun Dog, and All age Nationals.. 

Shorthairs fall into a weird zone with regards to the field trial world. Their original purpose and how they were originally envisioned to be handled was not the same as that of Pointers and setters. In some ways I wish they were let into more than they are (like Ames) just to stop the griping. Half of them are "droppers" of a sort anyhow   , competing with traditional pointing dogs shouldn't be a problem for them.

[jetjockey]

Brits fall into a similar situation.  The Gun dog people who believe Brits were originally bred to be close working foot dogs, and the All age crowd breeding dogs to run over the hills.  Most of the Pro's skip the Brit Gun Dog Nationals to get ready for the All Age Nationals.  It doesn't help that the ABC hasn't nominated a Gun Dog for the Hall of Fame in many years.  The difference is that the Brit people have done a pretty good job not splitting the breed into AKC and AF, and Show dogs.  All our Championships are dual sanctioned by the AKC and AF and there is a huge push for the dual Ch dog as well.  While I'm not a show person, and don't really like the dual aspect, I can appreciate what they are trying to do.

[AspenBud]

Brits fall into a similar situation.  The Gun dog people who believe Brits were originally bred to be close working foot dogs, and the All age crowd breeding dogs to run over the hills.  Most of the Pro's skip the Brit Gun Dog Nationals to get ready for the All Age Nationals.  It doesn't help that the ABC hasn't nominated a Gun Dog for the Hall of Fame in many years.  The difference is that the Brit people have done a pretty good job not splitting the breed into AKC and AF, and Show dogs.  All our Championships are dual sanctioned by the AKC and AF and there is a huge push for the dual Ch dog as well.  While I'm not a show person, and don't really like the dual aspect, I can appreciate what they are trying to do.

I don't know, one could argue that there are some big differences between a Brittany that Ben O. Williams has bred versus Nolan's Last Bullet or K-DeL's Wanbli Owankiye in the Coverdog world or a dual champion Brittany.

The whole thing is a mess in this country because everyone has wanted to turn the versatiles into strictly bird dogs. That clashes heavily with various field trial traditions. If you skip across the pond you likely won't see shorthairs running in Pointer/setter trials. The training is different, the criteria judged is different, and the expectations are different. The same thing bubbles up here (look at Ames etc).

[wildweeds]

At a somewhat local level it does happen, Doc Favor runs his stubtails in the AF events,Hoke runs some too.Some years ago a snobby pointer owner Kate Stockwell Brown made a statement that was somewhat snotty about NFC Dunfers Where You Been and how her Miller pointer would make him look pretty bad when they got to the big hill.Guess what................ Ben was over the top while the pointer labored at the halfway up mark.I say let em run at ames too,you'll have a hard time getting by the current judging staff,  but they did put up a pointsetta last year,so if a half breed can win it anything is possible.

And the GSP's and the Britts both have national walking stakes too.

Oops.  I forgot, the GSP's have an AF Nationals and an AKC Nationals.  So hat makes 2 different AF Nationals.  Us the GSP's have An Amateur, Gun Dog, and All age Nationals.. 

Shorthairs fall into a weird zone with regards to the field trial world. Their original purpose and how they were originally envisioned to be handled was not the same as that of Pointers and setters. In some ways I wish they were let into more than they are (like Ames) just to stop the griping. Half of them are "droppers" of a sort anyhow   , competing with traditional pointing dogs shouldn't be a problem for them.

[Happy Gilmore]

Schwerdts thing was the english setter nationals which has a very low entry and is more of a stake for Jerrys kids,20-25 dogs entered is about the average for it,it's only 45 minutes and there's a bunch of nonsense monkey buisness with microchips and DNA on file in order to run in it.Larry's a nice guy but the dog he ran ain't that good when you compare it against the Palmers dog.Arnies about 8 years old and Max is YOUNG.Premium performance out of a young dog shows quality,continuing to campaign an older dog tells you one thing,it wasn't very good young and if it's still not gotten it's FC it's still not good,Trena still runs half a dozen dogs that are 7-10 years old that have nothing more than a derby placement or one broke dog placement.Theres a certain amount of luck in it and the amount of luck you need is far less with a stellar individual.

The parent club for the english is governed by and directed by women of the showring,bullheadedness is why the thing will continue to be considered a joke.

Schwerdt?

Very cool. Another local won the GSP National last year. Got first and third place. Larry lives in Badger Pocket now. Trains with Trina. Dan has nice dogs. Planted birds at a trail two years ago in Sunnyside for the club.

Yes, Am National of some sort- not sure there are too many different ones in the Pointer world..lol- Retrievers have one and thousands of dogs compete to qualify. One big azz playoff. Pointers, national this, chukar national that, Ames here, championship series, bird dog challenge there.. Too many to keep straight.

Tell us how you really feel Ernie..  Did Larry's dog only fetch you a roll of single ply when the crapper was empty? 

[jetjockey]

At a somewhat local level it does happen, Doc Favor runs his stubtails in the AF events,Hoke runs some too.Some years ago a snobby pointer owner Kate Stockwell Brown made a statement that was somewhat snotty about NFC Dunfers Where You Been and how her Miller pointer would make him look pretty bad when they got to the big hill.Guess what................ Ben was over the top while the pointer labored at the halfway up mark.I say let em run at ames too,you'll have a hard time getting by the current judging staff,  but they did put up a pointsetta last year,so if a half breed can win it anything is possible.

And the GSP's and the Britts both have national walking stakes too.

Oops.  I forgot, the GSP's have an AF Nationals and an AKC Nationals.  So hat makes 2 different AF Nationals.  Us the GSP's have An Amateur, Gun Dog, and All age Nationals.. 

Shorthairs fall into a weird zone with regards to the field trial world. Their original purpose and how they were originally envisioned to be handled was not the same as that of Pointers and setters. In some ways I wish they were let into more than they are (like Ames) just to stop the griping. Half of them are "droppers" of a sort anyhow   , competing with traditional pointing dogs shouldn't be a problem for them.

The problem is getting qualified to run at Ames.  That alone is tough enough. With only 70 qualifying stakes, the most that could get qualified would be 140.  He'll, even half way qualifying is a huge acomishment for most people.

The Only Brit walking National is the Amateur Gun Dog National.  All others are horseback, including the Open Gun Dog.  With that said, three dogs posted today in Booneville. One west coast dog

[wildweeds]

Oh Happy  No sugar coating with me,I look at every dog with the premise of whether or not I would breed a dog to it or get a dog from it.

[AspenBud]

but they did put up a pointsetta last year

Shadow Oak Bo? I thought that dog was all setter?

For that matter I didn't think AF allowed droppers anymore.

[wildweeds]

Think what you want,then start looking at pictures of dogs with Shadow in their name............ Add to the fact that theres a dam that came from almost out of nowhere.As to them not allowing crossbreeding,yeah they don't but it gets done,it's not hard to do,For instance HOF pointer Rockacre Blackhawk threw some shaggy pups and Strut is tricolored with a nice tan patch or two.Rockacre Buckwheat was a full blown pointsetta.It happens more than you think.There are a bunch of brittianys out there whose veins course the genetics of CH Alamance Little Rock,moneys money and when its as easy as a trip out behind a woodshed it happens,whether on purpose or accident.Lots of white shaggy dog blood in the gordon world.

but they did put up a pointsetta last year

Shadow Oak Bo? I thought that dog was all setter?

For that matter I didn't think AF allowed droppers anymore.

[AspenBud]

Think what you want,then start looking at pictures of dogs with Shadow in their name............ Add to the fact that theres a dam that came from almost out of nowhere.As to them not allowing crossbreeding,yeah they don't but it gets done,it's not hard to do,For instance HOF pointer Rockacre Blackhawk threw some shaggy pups and Strut is tricolored with a nice tan patch or two.Rockacre Buckwheat was a full blown pointsetta.It happens more than you think.

I'm not arguing the point, I just haven't heard that line of thinking much. When I looked at the dog I was struck by just how much he looks like a shaggy Pointer.

Regarding Strut, there may be some merit to that. But do hold in mind that tricolor is actually an accepted color scheme for English Pointers with the Kennel Club of England and the AKC does not explicitly say it can not occur. Now, how likely that would be to pop up in the field trial world where solid color Pointers do not exist let alone tricolors, well...

I don't know enough about Rockacre Buckwheat to have an opinion one way or another.

At the end of the day I think anything is possible in that world. Especially considering that droppers used to be registered with AF.

[jetjockey]

That's why DNA is required to run in most breed Nationals now days.  But that won't fix anything.  The people losing will always come up with some excuse as to why their dogs can't compete.  I've seen it first hand.  Watched a show person call out a Brit for being crossed with a setter because it was tall and nearly all white.  4 generations of DNA did nothing to shut them up.  Hell, I've had people tell me they think there's Pointer in my Brit based on pictures.  Shows that you can't judge anything from a picture.

[AspenBud]

That's why DNA is required to run in most breed Nationals now days.  But that won't fix anything.  The people losing will always come up with some excuse as to why their dogs can't compete.  I've seen it first hand.  Watched a show person call out a Brit for being crossed with a setter because it was tall and nearly all white.  4 generations of DNA did nothing to shut them up.  Hell, I've had people tell me they think there's Pointer in my Brit based on pictures.  Shows that you can't judge anything from a picture.

I agree, but how many generations back consecutively do you need to prove? It's not a big leap to think that a dog could come out of nowhere, have both its parents and itself pass, but three generations prior  have had a little Pointer dropped in. I've also heard it's hard to prove anything beyond the parents with DNA testing anyhow.

When I first saw pictures of the following dog I though it was a Pointer...

http://michigannstra.com/uploads/nstra_dogs/apollofornstra.jpg

But according to the DNA tests the dog is a German Shorthair as were the parents. I know orange is an acknowledged trait in shorthairs, it's just a disqualifying color in dog shows, and I know that Pointers were mixed in to make the breed but...

Anyhow, going back to setters and Pointers, given that crossing did used to occur in AF it shouldn't be surprising if genes from one breed or the other occasionally show up to this day. I'm ok with that.

[wildweeds]

DNA in doggies is only good enough to establish parentage,nothing more past sire or dam.It hasn't been but a little over ten years,but I used to see crossbred litters registered for puppy futuritys listed in the field.As to fooling the DNA,it's super easy.Give me a couple  generations and Ill give you a dog of any similar  body style traits/colors that reads/looks as advertised but sports 50% of another breeds genetics.There's a way to do it and it will work and match  everytime,If I could figure it out so can a bunch of other people.