Bowhunter chased up tree by wolves in GMU 121!

[JLS]

Wow, this thread took a turn south.

I am going to make one last post on this topic, and then I'm done.  It amazes me to no end the need that people have to label and categorize people because they disagree with them.  I'm not going to name any names or address any specific remarks.  What amazes me even more is that so many assumptions are made about a person's beliefs as a whole, when in reality many folks have absolutely no clue whatsoever.

Just for fun, I'm going to state my stances on a multitude of items here.  Not to change anyone's opinion of me, because frankly I don't care.  I will stand 100% behind my beliefs, but also stand behind them with an open mind, which is how some of my beliefs have changed to where they are today. 

Did I support the original wolf reintro in 1995:  No

Would I support the wolf reintro if it were proposed today:  No, unless a multitude of parameters were written into it that would have prevented a lot this fiasco along the way.

Did I think elk hunting in Montana was doomed:  Yes

Did I think elk hunting in Idaho was doomed:  Yes

Would I have been happy to see wolves stay in YNP:  Yes

Do I have any emotional attachment to wolves:  No

Do I love wolves:  No

Did I write in objection to the stalling that occurred in the delisting process:  Yes

Do I think that the rules were changed in mid stream in regards to the delisting process:  Yes

Do I think Judge Malloy unfairly played biologist in his court rulings that halted the original wolf hunts:  Yes

Did I write in objection when wolf hunts were cancelled because of court injunctions:  Yes

Did I write in support of Simpson-Tester bill:  Yes

Did I write in support of removing wolves from the ESA:  Yes

Did I write in opposition to WDFWs wolf plan:  Yes

Did I ever say wolves will NOT reduce ungulate numbers:  No

Did I ever say wolves will make elk hunting better as a whole:  No

Did I ever say wolves will make someone a better hunter:  No

Did I say there was still good elk hunting in Montana, despite the presence of wolves:  Yes

Do I hunt where there are wolves:  Yes

Have my fears been largely unfounded:  Yes

Do I think poor elk hunters use wolves as an excuse for their lack of success:  Yes

Did I say that elk have not been pushed out of wilderness areas and near town because of the refuge from wolves:  Yes

Did I say that the biological desert claims by Toby Bridges are false:  Yes

Did I ever say Hydatid disease concerns for humans are greatly overblown:  Yes

Did I say habitat issues are a greater concern than predation for elk numbers:  Yes

Did I ever say wolves will not impact ungulate numbers in Washington:  No

Did I say that wolves will not wipe out game numbers in Washington:  Yes

Do I have friends whose livestock operations are impacted by wolves:  Yes

Do I think wolves pose a danger to humans:  Yes, they are a wild animal

Do I think the odds of being attacked by a wolf are low:  Yes

Would I shoot a wolf in self defense or support someone else that did so:  Yes, as I stated earlier in this thread

Do I support liberal hunting for wolves:  Yes

Do I think wolf numbers can be impacted by hunting:  Yes

Do I think YNP was overgrazed by elk:  Yes

Do I think wolves were a necessity in YNP:  No

Do I think hunting could have been used instead:  Not likely given the yearly events at the Gardiner late elk hunt

Do I think YNP is more in balance now:  Yes

Have hunters paid an unfair price in regards to the wolf reintro: Yes

Will hunters continue to pay an unfair price in regards to wolves:  Yes, unless we can educate the public

Do I think it makes hunters look silly to equate wolves to serial killers and rapists:  Yes

Do I think there were wolves illegally introduced in Washington:  No, and if you have proof you should submit it so the persons responsible can be fired

Do I think we should be hunting wolves in Washington right now:  Yes, as soon as they are cleared from the ESA list

Do I think the wolf plan calls for too many packs:  Yes, because Washington's wolves don't have to act as a stand alone populations

Do I think it will change:  No

Do I think I will still be hunting elk in 20 years:  Yes

[Sitka_Blacktail]

  We currently have a member on the WDFW Wildlife Commission who is a paid employee of Conservation Northwest an openly pro-wolf organization that is opposed to many types of hunting. 

You are obviously talking about Jay Kehne. Who is a hunter and member of the Mule Deer Foundation and the Rocky Mt Elk Foundations. And he works for a conservation organization? So what? Since when did being a hunter mean you were against conservation? Most of the old time conservation guys were hunters who wanted to preserve what they loved. The fact that this has been twisted into "If you're for conservation, you're against us hunters" shows just how far logic has been thrown out the door and emotional garbage has replaced it.

The problem on this board is, many of you can't comprehend how fellow hunters aren't swayed by your emotional arguments about conservation in general and wolves in particular. So you suspect every one of us who even remotely disagrees with you of being a spy for the other side.  I tell you, the real anti's live in you guys' heads rent free.

[Elkaholic daWg]

I don't think anyone was talking about banning you, IDhntr

I think my post a ways back was misunderstood, I was not specifying anyone, I was referring to people who are not hunters, who are imposters here for the sole purpose of furthering their wolf agenda, we all know we have had those types on this forum, anyone who is not an imposter and is a hunter is welcome as long as they follow the rules. 

FYI - It's true that we've had wolf lovers posing on this forum as hunters and that stolen photos and lies about being hunters have been posted to portray themselves as a hunter who support wolves. We have weeded out a few of these types but have trouble identifying them from certain hunters who actually do support wolves to one extent or another.





 It's not the intention of H-W to ban anyone because they support wolves. But H-W will ban anyone who is only a pro-wolfer representing themselves as a hunter when in fact they are not and are truly only a liar trying to promote wolves.

Idahohntr, I don't know who you are or if you are capable of that, hopefully not, but KFhunter was not off-base with his comment.

Anyone falsely claiming themselves to be a hunter and/or using stolen photos and false stories to appear as a hunter is an issue that this forum probably should try to address at some point.

I do apologize to any hunters I have offended. 

   

  Humanure, he had the right handle!

[wolfbait]

Like Bob33 pointed out, other members may not give their  if they think they will be labeled as wolf lovers.

I mostly refuse to engage in any wolf threads any longer because of past interactions on here that went down like this thread has. It's unfortunate that some people can't have a little different viewpoint on this topic without getting bashed, being referred to as a "wolfer", a wolf lover or being labeled as having a pro-wolf agenda.

That's all I'm going to say. Been there, done that.

I think that is a probably good Idea for you Jack, your calm down and wait for delisting back in 09 hasn't worked to well-----

[wolfbait]

Lets talk about how stupid WDFW is, or should we start a whole new topic?--First WDFW not only have wolves listed as "endangered" by WA wolf plan in WA, but the frauds at the USFWS have first control. Thats after several years of seeing what has happened in the three states that wolves were illegally introduced.

We know now that the USFWS introduced wolves without the proper paper work, they stole money to do this. And yet the the frauds at WDFW are copping the very same techniques AS the USFS and IDFG IN misrepresenting the facts and lying about the true number of wolves in the state of WA.

Habitat?

[jackelope]

Like Bob33 pointed out, other members may not give their  if they think they will be labeled as wolf lovers.

I mostly refuse to engage in any wolf threads any longer because of past interactions on here that went down like this thread has. It's unfortunate that some people can't have a little different viewpoint on this topic without getting bashed, being referred to as a "wolfer", a wolf lover or being labeled as having a pro-wolf agenda.

That's all I'm going to say. Been there, done that.

I think that is a probably good Idea for you Jack, your calm down and wait for delisting back in 09 hasn't worked to well-----

Neither have your claims of proof of the mystery white van dropping off wolves in the methow. Still waiting on that. I know you've got it, just waiting for it. No...but seriously, I'm good. I know you're not going to produce. If you had that proof, it would've magically appeared by now. Back to not partaking in wolf threads now.


 

[KFhunter]

I do know where wolves were released, but it wasn't WDFW.  It was some hippy chick releasing "hybrids".


After a long drawn out thread much like this one, I now know to call any unofficially released wolf a "hybrid". 



I'm a simple guy,  I say if it looks like a wolf, has mostly all wolf DNA, and chases around eating things it's a wolf. 
but for the purposes of clarification I'll refer to them as hybrids as they didn't have the protection of the magic USFWS wand.

[jon.brown509]

I do know where wolves were released, but it wasn't WDFW.  It was some hippy chick releasing "hybrids".


After a long drawn out thread much like this one, I now know to call any unofficially released wolf a "hybrid". 



I'm a simple guy,  I say if it looks like a wolf, has mostly all wolf DNA, and chases around eating things it's a wolf. 
but for the purposes of clarification I'll refer to them as hybrids as they didn't have the protection of the magic USFWS wand.

 

[wolfbait]

I bet, the cool thing now is, that you can't delete wolf threads that hit the truth, Now that really makes me  Over and over again………….. . I bet that isn't too cool eh Jack…….

[KFhunter]

Speaking of hybrids....


I just read a nice article in Predator Magazine about "Coydogs, real or myth".


Basically the article went on about how coydogs are created, how they're pretty rare but confirmed they do exist....

but what struck me as interesting was how fast the coydog DNA is lost to the general coyote population if they did breed.  The study was not concerned in the least that the coydogs could taint the coyote DNA creating long lasting harm.



So with all these wolf hybrids, how fast will that 2% domestic dog DNA disappear once they breed with the approved DNA of a dispersing transplanted wolf?
According to this article pretty dang fast! especially when the coydog looses it's 50% domestic DNA as fast as the study in the article says.

[Bob33]

  We currently have a member on the WDFW Wildlife Commission who is a paid employee of Conservation Northwest an openly pro-wolf organization that is opposed to many types of hunting. 

You are obviously talking about Jay Kehne. Who is a hunter and member of the Mule Deer Foundation and the Rocky Mt Elk Foundations. And he works for a conservation organization? So what? Since when did being a hunter mean you were against conservation? Most of the old time conservation guys were hunters who wanted to preserve what they loved. The fact that this has been twisted into "If you're for conservation, you're against us hunters" shows just how far logic has been thrown out the door and emotional garbage has replaced it.

The problem on this board is, many of you can't comprehend how fellow hunters aren't swayed by your emotional arguments about conservation in general and wolves in particular. So you suspect every one of us who even remotely disagrees with you of being a spy for the other side.  I tell you, the real anti's live in you guys' heads rent free.

He didn't say "a conservation organization." He said "Conservation Northwest".

[KFhunter]

Did Sitka really not know the difference 

Somehow I don't think so, I think he knows exactly what "conservation northwest" is.



Thanks for bringing that up Bob33,  I caught it too but didn't post it. 
Nice to have someone else calling them to task for a change.


(oh btw Bob33 you just got labeled a "wolf whacko", welcome to the club!)

[wolfbait]

Speaking of hybrids....


I just read a nice article in Predator Magazine about "Coydogs, real or myth".


Basically the article went on about how coydogs are created, how they're pretty rare but confirmed they do exist....

but what struck me as interesting was how fast the coydog DNA is lost to the general coyote population if they did breed.  The study was not concerned in the least that the coydogs could taint the coyote DNA creating long lasting harm.



So with all these wolf hybrids, how fast will that 2% domestic dog DNA disappear once they breed with the approved DNA of a dispersing transplanted wolf?
According to this article pretty dang fast! especially when the coydog looses it's 50% domestic DNA as fast as the study in the article says.

Wolves AKA dogs breed with any female  that comes in, take the black wolves we are seeing, they are the result of Eskimos breeding domestic dogs with wolves. So where is the pure wolf?

[KFhunter]

yup - like the ones in GMU 111 the black wolves outnumber the gray colored ones 8-1

I got pictures of them chasing some Elk off the hillside, they're hitting that herd pretty hard. 


bunch of the moose got wiped out as well

[snowpack]

Did Sitka really not know the difference 

Somehow I don't think so, I think he knows exactly what "conservation northwest" is.



Thanks for bringing that up Bob33,  I caught it too but didn't post it. 
Nice to have someone else calling them to task for a change.


(oh btw Bob33 you just got labeled a "wolf whacko", welcome to the club!)

Some conservation group.  Bunch of eco-freakos.  The main driving force behind the anti-hound/bait/trap initiatives.