Found my Superposed

[87Ford]

Finally came across a Browning Superposed configured just as I've been looking for.  Picked it up last month and I'm still pretty excited about it, so thought I'd post a pic.  It won't replace my Benelli, but it will definitely see some action on pheasants next year..
1958 20 gauge
28" barrels
LTRK
Full, Mod
Unaltered chokes and all original

[gaddy]

good looking piece

[Wacenturion]

Super nice...congratulations!

[BLR 243]

Now thats a nice shooter

[jackmaster]

looks like my double barrel, sweet gun, i love the dark wood 

[Birdguy]

Beautiful gun, does it shoot as nice as it looks  . Good luck next fall!

[wadu1]

Very nice looking, I've worn out three Browning's because I shoot a lot 10-15K a year. The two parts listed here are ones you should have on hand they retain the ejectors in the receiver EJECTOR RETAINING PIN SCREW P/N B1334114, EJECTOR EXTENSION SCREW P/N B1334110. I have spares with me at all the shoots I attend to repair my current Browning 525 or help another shooters.   

[AWS]

Great shotgun

I've been shooting  a 20ga Superpose Lightning 1967 for about 20yrs now.   It started as a 28" M&F but I've had the stock fitted to me and opened the chokes to SK-II(3/8ths) and IM(3/4).  It is a pheasant hunting machine and it is almost unfair to take it n the field.  Mine weighs n at 6 lb. 3 oz. what a pleasure to hunt with, wish it had double triggers instead of a selector.

[wildweeds]

Very nice gun! Your going to love it,I got my first O/U in 1992,I have 5 now,for upland birds there is nothing better IMO.

[87Ford]

Thanks guys for the comments..

It's been on my bucket list the last few years to own a Superposed in decent condition like this one.  I've been searching and, needless to say, was a bit surprised to stumble upon this one in this condition and at a reasonable price.  The dealer had it graded at 80%.  I think it's a bit better than that and when I checked the serial number and confirmed it's vintage I grabbed it.  It's year of manufacture is 1958, so there are no salt wood worries.  Anyway, here's one more pic of the stock..complete with original horn butt plate.
 

[Bean Counter]

I'm always amazed at how meticulous gun grading can be. If that's only 80%, my hunting rifle is like a -45% 

[boneaddict]

Wow, that's just plain Cool.   Very beautiful.   

[merkelman]

That superposed is a keeper.  I came across this a few weeks ago and could not resist. 1963 merkel 201e.

[jetjockey]

Very nice gun! Your going to love it,I got my first O/U in 1992,I have 5 now,for upland birds there is nothing better IMO.

Great.  Now we need to start the SxS vs O/U argument!  Haha.   While I love O/U's, they just aren't a SxS! ;-)

[merkelman]

No, no, not starting this argument... I will let you begin. Lol!  However, own and shoot them both!  Here's an old photo of a mint model 24 in 20 gauge. Nostalgic!

[BOWHUNTER45]

Beauty !!! 

[jackmaster]

here is a question for ya, i have a double barrel 16 ga that looks real simalar to that over and under, would the firing pin set up in the o/u be the same as mine and if it is, how hard is it to replace the firing pin or pins in those type of guns? the right barrel on mine doesnt fire, so i am thinking there is a spring in there and either that is broke or the pin is broke, any knowledge on this from you fellas 

[AWS]

You need to take the stock off and everything is out in the open to see what the problem is.

Double trigger SXS
1.  The gun goes click when you pull the trigger and just a mark on the primer but doesn't fire= weak spring/dirty or gummed firing pin.

2.  The gun goes click when you pull the trigger and no mark on the primmer= broken firing pin or broken hammer.

3.  Gun doesn't go click when you pull the trigger, broken spring , cocking rod or sear.

Single trigger if the gun doesn't click when you pull the trigger the auto-selector gummed or stuck, but should work if you manually select the right barrel if no click see above.  Selector systems are very sensitive and need attention by a qualified gunsmith.  Main springs either leaf or coil are very hard to get in and out.

Good luck

[merkelman]

here is a question for ya, i have a double barrel 16 ga that looks real simalar to that over and under, would the firing pin set up in the o/u be the same as mine and if it is, how hard is it to replace the firing pin or pins in those type of guns? the right barrel on mine doesnt fire, so i am thinking there is a spring in there and either that is broke or the pin is broke, any knowledge on this from you fellas 

I agree with AWS, SCOTT KING is a great gunsmith over in Wenatchee. You can always send it to him for review. If you need a new spring, sear, or firing pin he can accommodate. He does great work!  509-860-1543

[jackmaster]

Thank you AWS, its an old Stevens, really old, it has double triggers, I will take it apart and have a look see will springs go flyn by chance?

[AWS]

Not by just removing the stock.  They can fly if you try to remove them if they are coil springs.  When removing small springs working inside a plastic bag can save a lot of headaches.

[merkelman]

They should be coil springs on that gun.

[jackmaster]

Thanks for the heads up fellas and the knowledge, I guess if I mess it up it will still make an awesome mantle piece. Seriously I gotta fix it, it was such an awesome ruff gun

[quadrafire]

That is a really nice looking O/U. the weight is impressive.
I have a red label 12 and that thing is a tank.
I have always liked the looks of SxS and picked up an old (1920ish) 20ga Crescent w/ 28 in mod/full barrels. In really good shape. It is a sidelock and is easy to disassemble and clean the "workings"
Haven't shot it yet.

[jetjockey]

Make sure you have it checked before you shoot it I your going to shoot modern loads.  In the 20's most 20ga guns still had 2 1/2 in chambers.  They were proofed for much lower pressures than today's loads as well.   When I got my Smith, I took it to a well know double gunsmith in North GA.  He measured everything before he deemed it safe to shoot.  There's more than 1 old double out their that's been butchered by smiths that didn't know what they were doing, and aren't safe to shoot. With that said, there's something nostalgic about carrying an old American Classic SxS in the field.  Every time I drop a quail with my LC Smith, it makes me wonder about the original owner, the hunting back then, the dogs, birds, etc.  Owning an American shotgun is like owning a piece of history!  Shooting one is like going back in time!

[quadrafire]

Hey Jet thanks for that
don't mean to thread jack here, but if it was for 2 1/2 would a 2 3/4 shell fit in it? They slide in fine with no resistance.

[merkelman]

Yes...

[jetjockey]

Shell length is measured by the opened length, not loaded. Measure a 2 3/4 inch shell, and you will notice it's only 2 3/4 after it's been fired.  So yes, a 2 3/4 inch shell will often load just fine.  If you load a fired 2 3/4 inch shell, typically it won't fit all the way in if the chambers are 2 1/2. But that's not always the case.  Find a good smith with the proper gauges and they should be able to tell you.  BTW.  The bores should measure close to .615.  If they are much bigger, it means they've been honed out to remove rust pits.  That could make the gun unsafe to shoot if the barrel metal isn't thick enough to handle the pressure.

[quadrafire]

Wish I had this information before I purchased the durned thing.
It is really clean, I don' think the chambers have been honed, but can't be positive.
I'll mic it and consider finding a local smith to do a check up.
Thanks

[AWS]

2 1/2" shells are fairly easy to get, and not that expensive.  RST makes them.

Here's a link to the price sheet, just scroll down to 20ga.

http://www.rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htm

I shoot 12 and 16ga shotguns with 2 1/2" chambers and they work as good or better than 2 3/4" shotguns.

Reloading data is available for 2 1/2 shells in 12, 16, and 20 ga. from Ballistic Products.

[jetjockey]

 

RST's are great shells.  And very easy to get.  You can also use 2 3/4in data for 2 1/2 shells if you roll crimp them.  You could also have the chambers opened up to 2 3/4.  But you'd definately want to have a good smith inspect the gun then.  Then again, if hue gun is marked for 2 3/4 in shells, it's not an issue.  Check the water table or the barrels.

[AWS]

2 3/4" hulls cut down to 2 1/2" with low pressure duck loads for my old sxs.



They work very well.

[quadrafire]

They are not marked 2 1/2 or 2 3/4
What is the water table?

Sorry to the OP for Jacking this thread.

[AWS]

If the barrels aren't marked you have to assume they are 2 1/2" as there was nothing else available.  The Water Table is the flat area between the hinge pin and the face of the breech where the flat part of the barrel rests when the action is closed.

European shotguns are marked in metrics 65mm=2 1/2", 70mm=2 3/4" and there also if it is not marked it is usually the short shell.

[merkelman]

On the water table you should have some sort of proof markings. Due to your gun being a 20 ga., most often the bores have been left alone due to higher pressures in the gauge. 

[AWS]

The US had voluntary proof laws and had no proof marks.  Water tables on American doubles usually only have serial numbers and company inspection /assembly marks.  I just looked at a Stevens 235 sxs from the late 20's early 30's and there are no chamber lengths, chokes or even gauge markings on the barrel flats, water table or anywhere on the shotgun.

[jackmaster]

The US had voluntary proof laws and had no proof marks.  Water tables on American doubles usually only have serial numbers and company inspection /assembly marks.  I just looked at a Stevens 235 sxs from the late 20's early 30's and there are no chamber lengths, chokes or even gauge markings on the barrel flats, water table or anywhere on the shotgun.

speaking of that, i was looking at my 16 ga last night, i cant find what year the gun was made, is there a way to do that?

[jetjockey]

What kind of 16?

Try here.

http://www.cornellpubs.com/serial-numbers.php

[jackmaster]

its an old stevens, i want to say it a 3H11, i was looking at it last night and cant remember, i swear i got alzheimers and i am 41 or maybe it said 9E11, i will post the right info when i get home, sorry for being an idiot fellas, i will check out the site you posted as well, i do know i need to refinish the whole gun, when i was a kid my lab bit up the stock a little, and the barrels need to be completly re blued, however on the break action part the steel looks so cool it looks like an oilsheen on the water, how it gets all those differant colors, i dont want that to go away if i re blue it though, i need to post a pic and get some good ideas from you guys, i would like to do all the work myself, i can work with wood pretty good, but metal work idk    thanks again

[AWS]

You only have to reblue the barrels not the whole shotgun.  Most older shotgun barrels have to be "Rust Blued" instead of "Hot Blued" as the bluing salts in hot bluing will attack the solder joints. The oil on water look is called case color.  Google "images of case color hardening" to see some stunning firearms.

Original case color on the Savage 219 22 Hornet I gave my niece.

[jetjockey]

 

Make sure whoever does it knows what they are doing.  And understand that case coloring and re blackening will cost about $300+ each.   Depending on the gun, it might not make sense financially.

[jackmaster]

That colors is awesome is there a way to make the barrel like that as well, can a novice do that

[AWS]

Case color on a sxs is not possible as the heat needed will melt the solder joints holding the barrels together.  I doubt a novice could do it with out a lot of practice on non critical pieces of steel and lots of study in technique,.  That's why there are so few people that can do it successfully.  One of the big problems with case color is the heat required, warping of the steel is a serious byproduct of the process.

[jetjockey]

You don't want the barrels case hardened!  It would actually look ridiculous, plus what AWS said is spot on in regards to the solder.  The receiver is another story though.  IMO case hardened reviewers with nice blackened barrels are a thing of beauty. There's lots of smiths who can re color case harden, and re blacken the barrels.  But again, you have to compare the money you want to spend, with how much the gun is worth.  I don't believe the old Stevens guns are worth a heck of a lot.  But, if it's for the pure enjoyment of owning the gun, go for it. Just make sure a hack doesn't do the work.  There's not a ton of good smiths out there that really understand old doubles.

[jackmaster]

Excellent insight guys thank you, I will post a pic when I get home and go with what you guys recommend, I want it to look good cause my granpa gave it to me when i was real young and he has since passed, thanks again

[jetjockey]

Here's a link to some other Stevens guns for sale to give you an idea what you might have.

http://www.gunsinternational.com/Stevens-Shotguns.cfm?cat_id=685