SB 6287 Cougar Control Pilot Program (Hound Hunting)

[idaho guy]

thanks, thats how I thought they would do it

[MtnMuley]

I agree with BearPaw, why can't a hunter who draws a tag hunt? If I drew a tag, and I don't have have dogs, would then look to hire a guide/houndsman to go out and fill my tag. I have thousands of acres of forest behind my place filled with cats that need hunted. I hope we all get a chance to hunt cougars with hounds in the state.

I think everybody wants that Joe.  I certainly do, but I655 ( I think that's the right one) banned the use of hounds for hunting bears/cats.  With basically hands tied, we need to get back on track running hounds to control predator populations.  At this time, I feel that letting the houndsmen get depredation or control tags is our best route.  Hopefully this would get us back on track to someday down the road, open up a general public season allowing every sportsman to apply to have a chance.  Oh, the green state of Washington................

[BOWHUNTER45]

I am not sure where your coming from ...hunting is hunting ..with a guide or not ...can you explain what your saying ?

[csaaphill]

voted for 

[WAcoyotehunter]

Guiding put this program in a bad light, when legislators tried to renew it. And I guarantee will be brought up again. If there was wording to eliminate guiding we would stand a better chance.

That's exactly right.  This MUST be a public safety/damage hunt or it will never fly.  I have been in those meetings in Olympia and promise this bill will meet strong oppostion if it is viewed as a trophy hunt.

I wouldn't want it to be open to non hound owners.  I think it should only be open to someone that has made themselves and their hounds available to respond to damage complaints here in the past. 

I got sick of seeing 'out of towners' over here with a tag figuring we would just be lining up to take them out.

[HighCountryHunter88]

i am all for only having houndsmen be able to put in for this. i agree that this cannot be a "trophy hunt" to pass.

i do not see a way that does not include fish and game going way out of thier way (which they wont do) to make for certain that the people who are applying are houndsmen.

any ideas?

[villageidiot]

I heard that the pilot program died because the head of the natural resource committe refused to bring it up for a vote to continue it.  It was originally set up to be voted on every 3 yrs but the greenies outfoxed us on this one and got a bunny hugger in as head of the natural resource committee who has the right to not bring things up for a vote thus it dies.
  I'd like to see all hunters be able to get a chance at a tag including out of state to help on the revenue end.  Part of this would allow any hound hunter to pursue even if they did not get drawn to keep their dogs in shape and ready to go when a tag holder calls.  I'd also like the owner of the dogs to be allowed to charge at least his expenses or they will get shafted like Mulehunter did.  Doubtful they would ever allow pursuit without a kill tag because that would be considered "recreational hunting" which the anti's hate.  They do not want hunters to actually enjoy a sport even if they just catch and release.  This seems no different to me than catch release fishing.  They could even charge a healthy fee for a permit to hound hunters just for a pursuit permit.  If legal pursuit was allowed then the big problem the Methow Valley is having right now would be helped quit a bit by just chaseing all these cats away from town.
  At preseent WDFW is having to pay their people to catch and kill many cats at the expense of the dept when the exact same thing could be done by hunters bringing in revenue to the dept, towns and free up the game agents to get their other work done.

[bigtex]

The bill had a hearing on 1/28, the following is the testimony:

PRO: This bill would reauthorize a pilot program that began in 2004 and ended in 2011. This bill would create a useful tool in combating potential cougar attacks and depredations. There has been an increase in cougar-livestock related issues. With the limitation of the use of hounds as a tool for hunting pursuit and management, there has been an expansion of cougars in the environment. The use of dogs allows for more management options for dealing with cougars. Currently boot hunters are the primary tool in existence.

CON: Citizens voted on an initiative and banned the use of dogs to hunt cougars as a means of management. This bill would breach the integrity of that initiative. Scientific research has determined that increased hunting levels can lead to higher numbers of depredations. Therefore, there is a chance that this new bill would have the opposite of its intended effect. Wildlife viewing is a huge boon to the state’s economy, and any removal of cougars could potentially hurt the state’s economy.

OTHER: This issue has been around for a number of years, and cougar management has undergone significant changes over time. The use of dogs for cougar hunting can help manage the sex and age of cougars killed. The main issue is the depredation issue, and DFW believes they have the proper tools in place already. DFW is willing to work with stakeholders to arrive at common ground.

Persons Testifying: PRO: Jack Field, WA Cattlemen’s Assn.; Tom Davis, WA Farm Bureau; Tom Echols, Hunters Heritage Council.

CON: Dan Paul, The Humane Society of the United States; Bob McCoy, Bob Aegerter,citizens.

OTHER: Dave Ware, DFW.

[bigtex]

Given that the bill had a hearing on 1/28 and has not yet been scheduled for a committee vote I am guessing this bill will not pass this year. Policy bills must be passed out of their house of origin by this Friday.

[Bob33]

"Scientific research has determined that increased hunting levels can lead to higher numbers of depredations."

Huh?

[MtnMuley]

 

[Special T]

That was in reference to some cock and bull  study that the WDFW refered to once before...  They stated it was because hounds targeted large males that held a range and younger cougars were not being harvested....  never mind the fact that you cant kill as many cougars without hounds, and hunters have not picked up hunting them as much... You also used to be able to purchase a Deer, bear,cougar combo for $60ish some bucks that is not available now. you either have to purchase the WHOLE combo to get a reduced rate (not so much if you arn't going elk hunting) or fork over the $24 for a bear and/or cougar.

[bigtex]

Given that the bill had a hearing on 1/28 and has not yet been scheduled for a committee vote I am guessing this bill will not pass this year. Policy bills must be passed out of their house of origin by this Friday.

Apparently I spoke a day too soon..

On 2/4 the Senate Natural Resource and Parks Committee voted this bill out of committee with bipartisan support with only Democrat Senators Kline and Liias voting in opposition. The bill now goes to the Rules Committee which will set the bill for a full Senate vote. There is one amendment to the bill, the amendment adds the following language:

(e) Designed to minimize the harvest of healthy, dominant males and breeding females in order to promote stability in the social structure of cougar populations

The effect of this amendment is: EFFECT: Adds to the list of required elements of the pilot program that seasons must be designed to minimize the harvest of healthy, dominant males and breeding females in order to promote stability in the social structure of cougar populations

[bearpaw]

Given that the bill had a hearing on 1/28 and has not yet been scheduled for a committee vote I am guessing this bill will not pass this year. Policy bills must be passed out of their house of origin by this Friday.

Apparently I spoke a day too soon..

On 2/4 the Senate Natural Resource and Parks Committee voted this bill out of committee with bipartisan support with only Democrat Senators Kline and Liias voting in opposition. The bill now goes to the Rules Committee which will set the bill for a full Senate vote. There is one amendment to the bill, the amendment adds the following language:

(e) Designed to minimize the harvest of healthy, dominant males and breeding females in order to promote stability in the social structure of cougar populations

The effect of this amendment is: EFFECT: Adds to the list of required elements of the pilot program that seasons must be designed to minimize the harvest of healthy, dominant males and breeding females in order to promote stability in the social structure of cougar populations

  definitely better than nothing....

[Humptulips]

I heard that the pilot program died because the head of the natural resource committe refused to bring it up for a vote to continue it.  It was originally set up to be voted on every 3 yrs but the greenies outfoxed us on this one and got a bunny hugger in as head of the natural resource committee who has the right to not bring things up for a vote thus it dies.
  I'd like to see all hunters be able to get a chance at a tag including out of state to help on the revenue end.  Part of this would allow any hound hunter to pursue even if they did not get drawn to keep their dogs in shape and ready to go when a tag holder calls.  I'd also like the owner of the dogs to be allowed to charge at least his expenses or they will get shafted like Mulehunter did.  Doubtful they would ever allow pursuit without a kill tag because that would be considered "recreational hunting" which the anti's hate.  They do not want hunters to actually enjoy a sport even if they just catch and release.  This seems no different to me than catch release fishing.  They could even charge a healthy fee for a permit to hound hunters just for a pursuit permit.  If legal pursuit was allowed then the big problem the Methow Valley is having right now would be helped quit a bit by just chaseing all these cats away from town.
  At preseent WDFW is having to pay their people to catch and kill many cats at the expense of the dept when the exact same thing could be done by hunters bringing in revenue to the dept, towns and free up the game agents to get their other work done.

I don't think that is the way things went down.
Couple years ago WDFW was behind a bill to basically expand the program to all counties. The pilot program bill wasn't sent up because they were pushing for a statewide program. It was shot down so they came up with an empty net and nothing has been in place in the interim.
WDFW was well intentioned and I saw Donny Matorella give a really excellent presentation at a hearing for the bill in The House Committee on Agricultue and Natural Resources. I think Hans Dunshee was instumental in killing the bill.