English Pointer Pups..

[Bluemoon]

I'm testing the water here.  I have the opportunity  to breed my male Wilson to a very nice female Emma.  So I am trying to spark some interest before I do this.

Wilson: is from my own breeding.  His sire "Clyde" is a National Field Champion his dame "Flair"  2x National Amateur Field Champion, Field Champion/ Amateur Field Champion.  Wilson is 2 points away from his FC and has 3 legs of his Master Hunter.  Most importantly he is a Wild Bird hunting fool.  He is one of our main go to dogs for our guide service seeing well over 2000 birds a year.
Emma:  Reside in Utah where she hunts Quail and Chukar,  She is also well bred her top half is Joe Shadow and her bottom half is *censored* Tonk Attitude.  Both are American field Champions. 
Please fill free to contact me for more information if this is of interest to you.
Bluemoon     

[Don Fischer]

These sound like AKC dog's?

[Bluemoon]

Don
Both dogs are registered American Field and AKC.  Though I have ran in both venues when I was doing more trialing I just preferred AKC trials over American Field.   The Pointer Nationals have been good to me in a 5 year span I won 3 NAFC' and 1 NFC with 2 runner ups and other placements with 3 different dogs.  I also have a American Field CH. with a Shorthair who has since passed on.
The trial world was very good to me.

[AspenBud]

These sound like AKC dog's?

More extensive pedigrees would probably be helpful.

The bitch sounds like she's mainly H0nky Tonk and Fiddler blood with some GoBoy splashed in there. Attitude was a 9 time NBHA champion and Joe Shadow is a hall of famer. If memory serves NSTRA guys are heavily into H0nky Tonk stuff and I want to say the same about Joe Shadow. Since both were male I'm guessing the potential dam is at least one or two generations removed from both??

I have no knowledge of the sire other than what was stated.

[wildweeds]

More than a splash of Go boy in that Bud, Both Joe and HTA are heavy in  HOF CH Additions Go boy genetics.Lotsa Fiddler in HTA as well.Love the head crank that HTA threw into his get.Perhaps Blue could chunk up a more detailed pedigree for Emma,the female has more to do with it than the male in my opinion. Here is a link to HTA, notice that HTA and AGB both have HOF Dams and he's got fiddler top and bottom,Fiddlers pride is sired by Fiddler.Easy to see heavily cemented genetics in Joe through his linebreeding of fiddler and AGB,Half brother X Half sister breeding with the common ancestor Shadows mark as the sire of each with different fiddler offspring on each maternal side.Only bad thing that could come of this is the cancer that fiddler was known to throw.It killed Joe young and I believe it was the demise of HTA as well.A board member on here had a Joe Shadow son that was dead at 6 from lymphoma,I talked with him about his dog and he said the dog made him as a rookie look good through sheer natural ability.
http://www.shadymeadowsgundogs.com/PedigreeView.asp?DogID=14083&HDR=9x+NC+*censored*+Tonk+Attitude

http://harriskennels.com/dog.php?dogID=124

These sound like AKC dog's?

More extensive pedigrees would probably be helpful.

The bitch sounds like she's mainly H0nky Tonk and Fiddler blood with some GoBoy splashed in there. Attitude was a 9 time NBHA champion and Joe Shadow is a hall of famer. If memory serves NSTRA guys are heavily into H0nky Tonk stuff and I want to say the same about Joe Shadow. Since both were male I'm guessing the potential dam is at least one or two generations removed from both??

I have no knowledge of the sire other than what was stated.

[Birddogman]

AKC is totally different than AF.  How many Pointer in a national champ stake??

[jetjockey]

I think 25 is a considered a good year.  And that's 25 total. Not 25 Gun Dogs and another 25 in All Age. 25 total.

[Birddogman]

Yah, I know.  Better genetics and testing in AF, not much out there in AKC as far as the E. Pointer is concerned.  The E. setter nationals I think brings in more competitors than the pointer one.  If you're looking for a lady field trialer then theat nationals is where its at!

[wildweeds]

Seen both the Clyde dog and the Flair dog run several times,both would be considered AF shooting dogs.Richard doesn't like me talking his dogs up so I'll leave it at this,they are nice dogs.I know where you guys are taking this,down the road that the bobtailed dogs  are superior because they have a 125 dog nationals,don't make the 124 that lose any better than the 1 that wins a different breed national.Same kind of naysayer BS goes on with Southeastern AF CH winners are superior to Western states or prarie winners because of the lower pool of competitors.As Harold Ray  once said in an AF Christmas issue......."A good dog is a good dog,whether it be a grouse dog,shooting dog or an all age dog"

[AspenBud]

Seen both the Clyde dog and the Flair dog run several times,both would be considered AF shooting dogs.Richard doesn't like me talking his dogs up so I'll leave it at this,they are nice dogs.I know where you guys are taking this,down the road that the bobtailed dogs  are superior because they have a 125 dog nationals,don't make the 124 that lose any better than the 1 that wins a different breed national.Same kind of naysayer BS goes on with Southeastern AF CH winners are superior to Western states or prarie winners because of the lower pool of competitors.As Harold Ray  once said in an AF Christmas issue......."A good dog is a good dog,whether it be a grouse dog,shooting dog or an all age dog"

One argument I've heard in favor of the AF side in the SE is the smaller pool of competitors allows for a more lengthy and revealing evaluation of the dogs. That's what I like about the championship at Ames. A dog has to be able to find birds and finish the 3 hour brace. If a dog can win that it probably is the real deal everyone makes it out to be.

That isn't meant to diminish the other venues, I just find that method most appealing. I will say however that AA AF dogs, at least Pointers, seem to bleed into just about every other venue with regularity one way or another. I seldom see it going the other way around, but that could also just be because I'm not studying pedigrees all of the time.   

 

[wildweeds]

Bud,

I think you misunderstood, the competiton pool in the south is far bigger than in the west,The Egyptian has over 100 entries as a norm,Havelock Blacksmith won it with 125 dogs entered,To compare a western shooting dog Ch like the Pacific Coast or the Western open  might have 35 dogs entered.The basic argument is that if there were more entries in the west the winners that win ............ would not win or are not worthy of the win that they got.

[Bluemoon]

Thank you very much Ernie...
I too knew where this was heading and did not want to go there.. I just wanted to announce a upcoming litter of pups.  The female arrived from Utah yesterday a very nice girl.   I'll gets some pictures up soon..

[boneaddict]

I don't have a dog in this fight so to speak, but I have to admit to the joy I got out of reading this thread.  The enthusiasm, knowledge and connections on this site still amazes me.   Reminds me of my days growing up listening to horse breeders sitting around the table negotiating their favorites.   If nothing else, I look forward to your litter Blue moon.  I love the photos.

[AspenBud]

Bud,

I think you misunderstood, the competiton pool in the south is far bigger than in the west,The Egyptian has over 100 entries as a norm,Havelock Blacksmith won it with 125 dogs entered,To compare a western shooting dog Ch like the Pacific Coast or the Western open  might have 35 dogs entered.The basic argument is that if there were more entries in the west the winners that win ............ would not win or are not worthy of the win that they got.

Gotcha

[wildweeds]

Richard,

Refresh my memory bank, Clydes sire is "Anchors Aweigh" if I recall right, and Flair is a grandaughter of Snakefoot  via Doug Johnstons  male pointer right?The things a person remembers and miss remembers,I swear the "anchors Aweigh" is right because you offered me Clyde at Blackrock in about 05 when you had just returned from the APC nationals when you won with Flair.I've got pictures on a SD card around here with Flair and her Momma both on point at blackrock.Her mommas name escapes me but I'm sure she was a black and white dog and her name was "Tess" as a guess.

[jetjockey]

Bud,

I think you misunderstood, the competiton pool in the south is far bigger than in the west,The Egyptian has over 100 entries as a norm,Havelock Blacksmith won it with 125 dogs entered,To compare a western shooting dog Ch like the Pacific Coast or the Western open  might have 35 dogs entered.The basic argument is that if there were more entries in the west the winners that win ............ would not win or are not worthy of the win that they got.

I dot think that's the arguement necessarily.  I think the arguement is the level of competition more than just the size of the trials.  While I agree a good dog is a good dog everywhere, when you run against the best in the country day in and day out, it makes even a great dog look more mediocre.  That's why the AKC Pointer National will never be respected in the Pointer world.  Everyone will always say that the winner won against sub standard competition because the "real" pointers are running their Nationals at Ames. Does that mean an AKC Pointer couldn't compete at Ames? Absolutely not.  But the level of competition is much higher. 

As far as size of trials and regions of the country goes, that's just the way it is.  Trial size and competition levels out west are much less than in the Midwest and SE.   I ran in a 1hr AAA Regional Championship this weekend with only 16 dogs entered.  However, there was 2 NC's, 1RU NC, and 1 RU Dog of the Year.  The dog that had the AKC GD NC at Ames won two years ago, until they lost him standing with 5 minutes left, was also in the trial.  We can fill weekday Championships with twice as many dogs as they can fill weekend trials out West.  And they can fill them with dogs who have proven they can compete, and win against the best.  I think that's the big difference when comparing dogs and regions.   BTW.  This isn't specific to just the Pointer guys either.  The Brit Gun Dog Nationals is considered a joke by many as well.  Because of that, most Brit Pros skip it, and so do their dogs.  It's hard to crown the best GD in the country when most of the best GD's aren't entered in the trial.

[Bluemoon]

Ernie your memory serves you correct.
Clyde was out of Anchors Aweigh.  And Flairs sire was NFC/AFC Elhews Paladin.  owned by Doug.  Pal came directly Bob Wehle.  That was the only Elhew I put into my line.  Flairs dame was my Tux (hence my kennel name) Tux was an NAFC/FC/AFC/FTC/AFTC,  She was out of Nevada Hankette and Bly Spy Master. 

[Forks]

Bluemoon, I look forward to more of your great pictures. I would love to have another,
 but one crazy pointer in the house is all I get according to my better half.
Ernie, your memory of dogs is mind boggling! You're a huge asset to this site.