The ecology of fear: Elk responses to wolves in Yellowstone are not what we thou

[bearpaw]

The ecology of fear: Elk responses to wolves in Yellowstone are not what we thought

http://www.westernconfluence.org/?p=131

[villageidiot]

It appears the pro wolfers might have jumped the gun spewing out misinformation  about how the wolf has changed the behavior of the few elk left in Yellowstone.  They are still eating the young aspen sprouts, hitting them hard.  This latest info. just cant be true.  The bunny huggers would never fib to us, would they?

[jon.brown509]

Great read I really like this part 
“The wolf is neither a saint nor a sinner except to those who want to make it so,” wrote L. David Mech of the U.S. Geological Survey in his 2012 paper, “Is science in danger of sanctifying the wolf?” He suggests that even scientists have become so attached to the iconic cachet of the wolf story that they credit the species with ecological roles beyond what research has shown for them.

 

[KFhunter]

How many times have I said the wolves are like sheep dogs herding around a flock of sheep, only the wolves don't have a human giving them orders to herd the sheep into specific area.  They're just sheep dogs run amok. 

They move them around constantly and out of the deep dark holes where they escaped hunters, so hunters see them and think "WOW!, ID/MT Elk hunting is fine, better than fine it's GRRRRRREAAT!"  (my Tony the tiger impression)

meanwhile the overall Elk numbers are tanking.   Guides that used to have good/great success are going under because they knew where the herd escaped the bulk of the hunters and horsed them into drop camps.  Now the Elk are no longer reliably on their permitted areas of operation having been dispersed by wolves.

[idahohuntr]

They move them around constantly and out of the deep dark holes where they escaped hunters, so hunters see them and think "WOW!, ID/MT Elk hunting is fine, better than fine it's GRRRRRREAAT!"  (my Tony the tiger impression)

meanwhile the overall Elk numbers are tanking. 

Very generally, I would say there are 3 "types" of areas in Idaho when it comes to elk hunting: 1. Areas that have almost no influence from wolves 2. Areas that have wolves present but the elk hunting is still reasonably good...some behavior has changed but there are still a lot of elk to hunt and 3. Areas where the presence of wolves, usually in combination with other major factors like habitat changes, have resulted in big declines (e.g. Lolo zone).  In some areas I would say wolves have improved "access" to the elk, which is what you seem to be describing above...this seems particularly true in the Panhandle of Idaho, so maybe this is something to anticipate happening in NE Wa.  I also believe the guides and outfitters have been disproportionately affected by wolf predation on elk...many of the areas below objectives are difficult to access like the Selway and Middle Fork where guides have traditionally operated.  Given that we have seen a leveling off of wolf numbers in Idaho and most units are still producing good elk hunts, I do not subscribe to any belief that elk hunting is going down the tubes in Idaho. 

Elk hunting is hard work.  I know a lot of guys who kill nice whitetail bucks every year in Idaho that have never killed a bull.  They didn't kill bulls in the 70's, 80's or early 90's and they don't kill bulls now...but its the wolves fault of course.   

Guides that used to have good/great success are going under because they knew where the herd escaped the bulk of the hunters and horsed them into drop camps.  Now the Elk are no longer reliably on their permitted areas of operation having been dispersed by wolves.

In business, sometimes you have to adapt...or you don't survive.  I am less concerned with guides going under...its when I see a family that had a camp and hunted these areas for multiple generations pulling out their camps with no expectation of returning that breaks my heart...its the little guy who hunts close to home.  Outfitters come and go, some local, some from far away.  They can potentially move to another area...usually not a choice for many rural Idaho families. So, bottom line, all these sob stories about guides going under...just not real high on my list of concerns...its too bad for them, but no different than the other millions of hard working Americans who lose jobs or are out of work. 

[bearpaw]

Your compassion is bubbling over.

Sadly, some people will say anything to try and justify wolf impacts even when the reality is written in black and white. 

Just keep on telling everyone that wolves have little impact. 

[bearpaw]

http://www.ktvq.com/news/gardiner-elk-hunt-falls-victim-to-wolves/

Gardiner elk hunt falls victim to wolves

GARDINER - One of the consequences of "Living with Wolves" is the elimination of a special late season elk hunt near Gardiner that has been part of the Montana hunting scene for the past 35 years. The January hunt was firstconducted in 1976, to help manage elk migrating out of Yellowstone National Park. At that time, the park's northern herd had reached as many as 12-thousand animals.

But once wolves were reintroduced to the park, the northern herd's numbers started declining. In 2005, game managers counted 9,545 elk. Three years later that figure had dropped to 3,912 animals, and by 2009 the herd's population was down to 3,511 elk. This year, FWP's aerial surveys of the northern herd outside the park's boundaries counted only 2,236 animals.

Last week, Montana's Fish and Game Commission voted to end the late season hunt citing elk numbers that had fallen below target levels due to predation mainly from wolves, but also from grizzly bears. The Montana Elk Plan established in 2004 called for a population of between 3-thousand to 5-thousand elk in the portion of the Northern elk herd that winters in Montana.

[idahohuntr]

Just keep on telling everyone that wolves have little impact. 

Just keep telling everyone there are only a few elk left in Idaho  It will leave more for me.

[bearpaw]

quotes from Randy Budge, Idaho F&G Commissioner

http://www.idahostatejournal.com/news/local/article_639aacda-1232-11df-87ef-001cc4c03286.html

Fish and Game commissioner: Wolves hurt elk numbers

    “From a wildlife perspective, there’s no question that this growing wolf population has had a devastating impact on our elk populations and our moose populations,” he said. “Our scientists’ and biologists’ studies on all these collared packs indicate that each wolf eats an average of 16 elk per year, so if you do the math and are being conservative, our 1,000 wolves are eating 16,000 elk per year.”

    He said 295 sheep, 76 cattle and 14 dogs were also confirmed to have been killed by wolves in 2009.

    Budge said the state’s biggest and historically most stable elk herd in the Lolo Pass area has gone from 11,000-13,000 elk to under 2,000 since wolves began to inhabit the area.

    “Put wolves into the equation, it tipped the balance,” he said.

    This impact resonates beyond Idaho’s borders, according to Budge.

     “Our out-of-state hunting numbers were down 25 percent in 2008, 31 percent in 2009,” he said.

    Fish and Game polled previous visitors to the state to find out if the economy was the culprit or if it was some other reason.

    “The No. 1 reason listed for not coming to Idaho was, ‘You haven’t taken care of your wolves and your wild animal populations are down,’” Budge recounted, “and the No. 2 reason was, ‘Your license fees are unfair.”

[pianoman9701]

So, bottom line, all these sob stories about guides going under...just not real high on my list of concerns...its too bad for them, but no different than the other millions of hard working Americans who lose jobs or are out of work. 

The demise of outfitters may not concern you, even though you're allowed to post on this website by one. However, the failures of outfitters reflect the changes in ungulate populations. They wouldn't be going out of business with abundant ungulates. They're going out of business because of the last straw - wolves added to a system that was already balanced, using man as a game management tool.

[idahohuntr]

Idaho offers some of the best elk hunting in the country and Bearpaw Outfitters have several excellent elk hunting options in Southeast Idaho - BEARPAW OUTFITTERS

THIS IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM YOUR WEBPAGE     

Sounds like you would actually agree with my assessment??

[pianoman9701]

Idaho offers some of the best elk hunting in the country and Bearpaw Outfitters have several excellent elk hunting options in Southeast Idaho - BEARPAW OUTFITTERS

THIS IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM YOUR WEBPAGE     

Sounds like you would actually agree with my assessment??

He doesn't say it's as good as it was just a few years ago and it's not.

[Dan-o]

 

Was there any part of SOUTHEAST IDAHO that you weren't able to comprehend?

[bearpaw]

Idaho offers some of the best elk hunting in the country and Bearpaw Outfitters have several excellent elk hunting options in Southeast Idaho - BEARPAW OUTFITTERS

THIS IS A DIRECT QUOTE FROM YOUR WEBPAGE     

Sounds like you would actually agree with my assessment??

Just keep on telling everyone that wolves have little impact. 

Just keep telling everyone there are only a few elk left in Idaho  It will leave more for me.

We all know there are units in Idaho that wolves have not yet impacted heavily. However, 1/3 of the state has been impacted extensively and wolves are moving into new areas. No other single factor has impacted elk and moose herds to the magnitude as wolves. This has taken away from countless local families, outfitters, and hunters from around the country.

Feel free to try and say wolves have little impact, the documented proof speaks for itself.

[idahohuntr]

You need to re-read my post.  I clearly state there are areas that are impacted by wolves, usually in combination with other factors.  I specifically mention the lolo zone.  However, there are large areas of Idaho where elk hunting is still good...as described on your outfitter website.