looks like spring bear apps open Jan 2.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I don't think both people get put in I believe its just the group leader.  Otherwise groups would have a huge advantage in the draw.

5. Decide if Applying as an Individual or
Group...
Decide if you want to apply as an individual,
as the leader of a group, or as a member of a
group. If you want to apply as a member of a
group, you must choose a group leader. The
leader of the group must submit his or her
application before the members of the group
can submit their applications.
When applying as a group, each member
must be eligible for the hunts that the group is
applying for. If a group application is selected
for permits, all of the hunters in the group
receive a permit and each hunter can take
an animal. The points accumulated by each
hunter in the group are averaged and applied
to the group application.If the number of permits available in a hunt
category is less than the maximum group size,
then the maximum group size is equal to the
number of permits.

[D-Rock425]

I get that what I'm saying is if you have a group of 12 not all 12 guys get put in the drawing.  You only 1 group member in the drawing but if drawn the whole group gets drawn.

[Boss .300 winmag]

I don't think both people get put in I believe its just the group leader.  Otherwise groups would have a huge advantage in the draw.

5. Decide if Applying as an Individual or
Group...
Decide if you want to apply as an individual,
as the leader of a group, or as a member of a
group. If you want to apply as a member of a
group, you must choose a group leader. The
leader of the group must submit his or her
application before the members of the group
can submit their applications.
When applying as a group, each member
must be eligible for the hunts that the group is
applying for. If a group application is selected
for permits, all of the hunters in the group
receive a permit and each hunter can take
an animal. The points accumulated by each
hunter in the group are averaged and applied
to the group application.If the number of permits available in a hunt
category is less than the maximum group size,
then the maximum group size is equal to the
number of permits.

I get that what I'm saying is if you have a group of 12 not all 12 guys get put in the drawing.  You only 1 group member in the drawing but if drawn the whole group gets drawn.

Points are averaged from all points of members in group putting in under group leaders application, if he is drawn then all get permits.

[D-Rock425]

Got it.

[Decker]

Thanks for clarifying guys! I will have 3 going in this year (which is what I drew on last time  ) and he'll only have 1, since it's his first time putting in. Sounds like the group draw would severely limit my chances, both in points and if there weren't enough permits left in the unit. We'll just put in separate and if one of us draws, the other can go help out.

This leads me to another question about maximizing your odds by which units you select. I saw a post on here a couple years back that basically said you should either put your unit preference in order of most-likely to draw to most-difficult, or the other way around. Does anyone have a link to that discussion? When I had 3 points a few years ago, I went by that format and was drawn.

Thanks!

[jason stevens]

Do you guys really believe in the points. Its a joke . I put in for cow tags with zero points three years in a row and drew. My dad put in same unit same time with ten points and didn't draw all three seasons. Good luck on your draws but if you think points matter your wrong.

[bobcat]

Points do matter. I know that from looking at the reports that show the number of points each successful applicant had, and I also know that from my own personal knowledge of permits friends, family, and myself have drawn.

[jason stevens]

Imo I don't believe it . If it were true how does someone draw with less points then another guy. It doesn't make sense.

[trophyhunt]

Because even with 10 points you are in a hat with more people that have 1 point or more. 10 is just a figure, but way more people with lower points are applying than guys with 10 or more.  Even with your points being exponentially calculated, your still up against thousands of names in the hat.  I have 19 this year for elk, I lost my confidence in the system years ago. It's a joke!

[trophyhunt]

This spring bear draw takes way too long, feb 28th is a long way off.  And that's just the deadline! C'mon wdfw, get it together!

[jason stevens]

Because even with 10 points you are in a hat with more people that have 1 point or more. 10 is just a figure, but way more people with lower points are applying than guys with 10 or more.  Even with your points being exponentially calculated, your still up against thousands of names in the hat.  I have 19 this year for elk, I lost my confidence in the system years ago. It's a joke!

one would think you would automatically get chosen with higher point value then start over then it would rotate accordingly not names in a hat. Not fair for guys with 19  points and a gut with one gets drawn jmo.

[trophyhunt]

Because even with 10 points you are in a hat with more people that have 1 point or more. 10 is just a figure, but way more people with lower points are applying than guys with 10 or more.  Even with your points being exponentially calculated, your still up against thousands of names in the hat.  I have 19 this year for elk, I lost my confidence in the system years ago. It's a joke!

one would think you would automatically get chosen with higher point value then start over then it would rotate accordingly not names in a hat. Not fair for guys with 19  points and a gut with one gets drawn jmo.

you won't get an argument from me, I think quality hunts should be for guys with 10 or more points only.  But that's been another subject that will get brought up every year.