Elk draw options

[MtnMan2286]

7 quality elk points for special draw..2 cow pts.with that being said,
Should a guy start using ghost points for cow tag?? Or ghost point for quality another couple years and maybe draw a cow tag first?

[cem3434]

The chances of drawing with 7 quality points is pretty low regardless of what weapon you hunt with. I would roll the dice and put in for both bull and cow tags. If you have my luck, you probably wouldn't draw either for another 10 years.

[Westside88]

I just ghost point cow tags and will continue until I draw a quality elk tag. Just never know when you'll draw.  My dad drew a quality elk tag with 5 points.......same one I've acquired 13 points trying for.......just never know. I'd rather not draw two the same year though

[Tbar]

I would not ghost point either. You have a decent chance at drawing a couple cow tags prior to a quality. If you are lucky enough to draw both worst case is options, that is a good problem. 

[MtnMan2286]

Agreed I've probably got a few years based on the numbers for quality..but!.I drew a bull tag with in cowiche with 3 pts so I know anything can happen!  I just hate how you gotta pick n choose, between ghost points or not applying for something that's well, quality.... First time forum user. This could get addicting just talkin huntin all the time .

[MtnMan2286]

would hate to get drawn twice it would be a waste of all those years waited and dollars spent

[cem3434]

I would not ghost point either. You have a decent chance at drawing a couple cow tags prior to a quality. If you are lucky enough to draw both worst case is options, that is a good problem. 

  I think the chances of drawing both in one year are pretty slim.  It's ultimately up to you, but I think the average points across all units for drawing a cow permit is about 4 points.  The average for drawing a quality bull is probably 12 points, but it really depends on your hunting method. I didn't go look this up or do the math, so I'm just going off of memory. 

Based on those odds, you will probably draw 1 or 2 cow tags before every pulling a quality bull permit.  If you are anything like me, you might be waiting longer.  I have 16 quality points and don't have any faith that I will draw a quality tag anytime soon. 

[MtnMan2286]

Roger that. I'm sure ill just apply for both. Super-slim odds of drawing both. Thanks a lot! Good luck this fall and in the drawings.

[Bob33]

With seven points your odds of drawing many of the quality elk permits are 1 in 100 or worse. Far worse for the most desirable permits.

I would not worry about drawing two.

[olsy]

Nothing for me last year with 8 Quality Bull points (expected), and 8 Anterless points (had a glimmer of hope)

[CAMPMEAT]

Not to jack the thread but,

I'm not much of a know anything about these drawing scams the WDFW has. Can someone 'splain them in laymans terms please ? I have 15 elk points and don't want to waste any of it on a stinking cow. I've always worked and couldn't take time off to elk hunt.

Thanks........

[jackelope]

Steve-
Sent you a pm.

[CAMPMEAT]

Steve-
Sent you a pm.

Got it............

[Mr Mykiss]

When you draw a QUALITY permit you'll be so happy to throw away your antlerless points it'll make your head spin!!

[buckreaper]

For years I wanted a Bull or Quality permit and that was my focus in the draws.  I wanted a big bull!  I put in for both every year while "ghosting" for cow permits until I drew those.  Didn't think it would take as long as it ended up taking.  I got up around 7-8 points when I thought I might have a chance at either.  Long shot, but a chance.  Since the odds of drawing the Bull permit I wanted were better than the Quality, I started putting in for Bull only and ghosted the Quality and Cow.  Didn't want to take the chance of drawing both in the same year.  Well, looking back it was a terrible strategy.  Thinking I had a decent chance of drawing the Bull permit with 8+ points I wasn't putting in for anything else.  Next thing I knew it took 14 points to finally pull the permit in 2012.  The good part was now I had 15 points in the Quality category(and Cow!).  I drew the Quality the next year.  Now, here I am with 16 points for a damn cow permit.  What a waste of points and years.  I'm fairly confident in getting my cow tag this year so I'll basically be starting over fresh in all three.  Now I'll put in for a cow tag every year.  If I draw it the year I draw a bull permit then "OH WELL"!!.  Instead of going 14 years without any permit at least I might be able to get a cow tag or two along the way.  Also, I'll be applying for both big bull permits every year unless I'm as unlucky as I was before and start getting up into the mid teens again.  Then I'll re-evaluate my situation.

[D-Rock425]

For years I wanted a Bull or Quality permit and that was my focus in the draws.  I wanted a big bull!  I put in for both every year while "ghosting" for cow permits until I drew those.  Didn't think it would take as long as it ended up taking.  I got up around 7-8 points when I thought I might have a chance at either.  Long shot, but a chance.  Since the odds of drawing the Bull permit I wanted were better than the Quality, I started putting in for Bull only and ghosted the Quality and Cow.  Didn't want to take the chance of drawing both in the same year.  Well, looking back it was a terrible strategy.  Thinking I had a decent chance of drawing the Bull permit with 8+ points I wasn't putting in for anything else.  Next thing I knew it took 14 points to finally pull the permit in 2012.  The good part was now I had 15 points in the Quality category(and Cow!).  I drew the Quality the next year.  Now, here I am with 16 points for a damn cow permit.  What a waste of points and years.  I'm fairly confident in getting my cow tag this year so I'll basically be starting over fresh in all three.  Now I'll put in for a cow tag every year.  If I draw it the year I draw a bull permit then "OH WELL"!!.  Instead of going 14 years without any permit at least I might be able to get a cow tag or two along the way.  Also, I'll be applying for both big bull permits every year unless I'm as unlucky as I was before and start getting up into the mid teens again.  Then I'll re-evaluate my situation.

I'm confused   the new draw system started in 2010 right?  How would ghost permits that far back?

[Bob33]

"I'm confused the new draw system started in 2010 right?  How would ghost permits that far back?"

Ghost hunt numbers have nothing to do with the changes made in 2010. The 2010 change created multiple categories for several species such as deer and elk. Prior to 2010 there was one elk category. Starting in 2010, there were seven elk categories. The same occurred for deer, moose, and other species.

Ghost hunt numbers existed long before the 2010 changes.

[MtnMuley]

They're "ghost" points......that's why

[MtnMuley]

"I'm confused the new draw system started in 2010 right?  How would ghost permits that far back?"

Ghost hunt numbers have nothing to do with the changes made in 2010. The 2010 change created multiple categories for several species such as deer and elk. Prior to 2010 there was one elk category. Starting in 2010, there were seven elk categories. The same occurred for deer, moose, and other species.

Ghost hunt numbers existed long before the 2010 changes.

I think he meant the guy referred to "ghosting" for cow while he was trying to draw a bull and a quality tag.  This has only been in place for a few years now, which leds me to think along the lines of D-Rock.....How have you been ghosting points over all these years?  Obviously it's been over a while because he said "until I drew those".

[D-Rock425]

I understand how it works Bob but his numbers and story don't add up.  He could only ghost permit other elk categories for two years because he wait he drew in 2012.

[Bob33]

I understand how it works Bob but his numbers and story don't add up.  He could only ghost permit other elk categories for two years because he wait he drew in 2012.

Whatever points he had for "elk" prior to 2010 carried over to all elk categories when the change was made. If he had eight elk points in 2009, he would then have had eight points in every elk category including antlerless.

I guess I'm missing something.

[MtnMuley]

Bob, he said he was "ghosting" cow until he drew "those" (referring to bull and quality).  You could have only ghosted pointed cows for a couple years, so something doesn't make sense unless he drew both bull and quality over a couple years.

[RB]

I would not ghost point either. You have a decent chance at drawing a couple cow tags prior to a quality. If you are lucky enough to draw both worst case is options, that is a good problem. 

Have drawn two cow tags last 10 years and no Bull tags quality or other 

[mtman]

Put in for both. I don't understand why it would be a big deal to throw away a cow tag. You can hunt bulls east or west with a general tag. I just put in for late cow hunts in case i don't get a bull. like the other guy said If you draw them both at the same time and are still even thinking of the cow tag, you don't deserve the bull tag. there are plenty of people that would be happy to draw a quality tag and give up all there other hunts the rest of the year.

[dreamingbig]

Apply for one of the rut hunts in little naches. Gmu 346.


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[Styles]

It is a big deal to "throw away a cow tag".  With this system the state is basically stealing $$ from us hunters.  They need to change the system so you do not draw multiple elk permits in the same year.  This benefits the state and while also potentially taking a tag out of someone elses pocket.  This is thievery in my opinion!!!!!

[bobcat]

If you don't want to draw multiple elk permits in the same year, don't apply in multiple categories. That's why they have the option to apply for just a point. I don't agree with the way they set up this new system with the multiple categories, but if you waste your points on a permit you don't use, it's your own fault. The fact that your points will be wasted helps to keep the odds better than what they would be if there were no disadvantage to drawing more than one permit for the same animal.

[Bob33]

If you don't want to draw multiple elk permits in the same year, don't apply in multiple categories. That's why they have the option to apply for just a point. I don't agree with the way they set up this new system with the multiple categories, but if you waste your points on a permit you don't use, it's your own fault. The fact that your points will be wasted helps to keep the odds better than what they would be if there were no disadvantage to drawing more than one permit for the same animal.

I don't like the system for several reasons but it is voluntary, and the rules are clear. WDFW is not stealing anyone's money or tags. It is a lottery with lots of players and few winners.

They expect a small amount of duplication when establishing quotas and the overall impact on harvest is minimal.

[moocher97]

You never know, I myself applied for elk and deer and everything in the youth category for 6 years and not a single thing but my dad had 3 points and got the any bull archery Margret tag so you never know I would just apply for both and take the risk of drawing 2 because the odds of getting one are sooooooo slim anyway but its an opinion 

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

I never put in for cow permits until the new system was put in place. And then i had been just buying points because i was waiting for my son to get old enough to use my points.

So in 2012 i applied for the St. Helens tree farm 1000 and we got lucky and pulled the Jan. 2013 Coweeman Cow tag. @ 13 my boy got to harvest his first big game animal. A cow that made the cow i shot look like a calf

[xXLojackXx]

The unit I hunt, takes about 5-7 points to draw a tag. And there are huge bulls in there. My buddy drew it with 5 or 6 points and got drawn again the next year with 1 point. Go figure