Awesome management

[bobcat]

Bison should be on the endangered species list. The wolves were, so they got restored. Now it's time to restore bison to all of their historical range. Besides, the wolves need more to eat. Win-win........

[deaner]

sorry, your argument is useless.  no matter how hard it is to comprehend, the fact is that the tree humping city dwellers only worship the carnivorous killing machines.  they are "majestic and noble" while the deer/ elk / woodland caribou / moose/ pronghorn / bison etc are not even worth mentioning, let alone filing a lawsuit over. 

[STIKNSTRINGBOW]

sorry, your argument is useless.  no matter how hard it is to comprehend, the fact is that the tree humping city dwellers only worship the carnivorous killing machines.  they are "majestic and noble" while the deer/ elk / woodland caribou / moose/ pronghorn / bison etc are not even worth mentioning, let alone filing a lawsuit over. 

Unless it was other taxpayers that are the carnivorous killing machines, then we are psychopathic murderers, not "majestic and noble"

[deaner]

sorry, your argument is useless.  no matter how hard it is to comprehend, the fact is that the tree humping city dwellers only worship the carnivorous killing machines.  they are "majestic and noble" while the deer/ elk / woodland caribou / moose/ pronghorn / bison etc are not even worth mentioning, let alone filing a lawsuit over. 

Unless it was other taxpayers that are the carnivorous killing machines, then we are psychopathic murderers, not "majestic and noble"

thats affirmative! for some reason any animal EXCEPT US that goes around killing for fun is instantly noble and beautiful.  go figure?

oh and how these animal rights people love their pet cats!!!   their pet cats that torture mice and birds and snakes for 10-20 minutes before killing them, and not even eating them.  just torture and kill for fun.  but they LOVE them!

[Sitka_Blacktail]

Bison should be on the endangered species list. The wolves were, so they got restored. Now it's time to restore bison to all of their historical range. Besides, the wolves need more to eat. Win-win........

I agree Bobcat. It amazes me that sea mammals for instance are considered endangered and everything is being done to return them to their historic range in historic numbers, no matter how they affect fishing which is feeding our country the same as farming. I would put wolves into that category up to a point. But they will never be allowed to return to their historic numbers. And justifiably so. But Bison on the other hand, they seem to have another set of rules for them. They will never be allowed to return to the great plains in wild roaming herds, let alone historic numbers as their effect on agriculture would be devastating. It would sure be awesome to be able to hunt them all over the west and midwest though.

[bearpaw]

It's impossible to restore bison to all their former range and numbers because it doesn't exist, just as it's impossible with wolves. 

[Bean Counter]

Hi guys.. stupid question here: What about transplanting the excess bison to another state/area with suitable habitat with the intention of growing it into a huntable population?

[bearpaw]

Hi guys.. stupid question here: What about transplanting the excess bison to another state/area with suitable habitat with the intention of growing it into a huntable population?

I agree if the brucellosis can be eliminated before they leave the area. Don't know if that is possible?

[steen]

sorry, your argument is useless.  no matter how hard it is to comprehend, the fact is that the tree humping city dwellers only worship the carnivorous killing machines.  they are "majestic and noble" while the deer/ elk / woodland caribou / moose/ pronghorn / bison etc are not even worth mentioning, let alone filing a lawsuit over. 

Unless it was other taxpayers that are the carnivorous killing machines, then we are psychopathic murderers, not "majestic and noble"

I don't think it is really has much to do with wolves except that is the animal they chose for their financial gain.  They've used them to get city folks to feel sorry for them and pour money into it so they can continue their agenda.  More than likely undermine hunting.  People are such suckers for the poor animal commercials that they pour a lot of money into it.  It could have been cougars or bears. What I don't understand is they want to get ride of ranchers. Do they not know it will undermine the food chain?  Confusing to me. 

[Sitka_Blacktail]

It's impossible to restore bison to all their former range and numbers because it doesn't exist, just as it's impossible with wolves. 

Bearpaw, I actually agree with you as far as bison go. There would have to be too many changes for it to even be possible.  It would totally upset the food supply in this country.  But we can make room for a few wolves.  We just disagree on what a "few" means.  And you refuse to admit any benefit wolves might create.

[KFhunter]

I was under the impression that one of the key arguments to the wolf reclassification was that these bigger wolves would help cull the bison,  instead they culled the Elk too much and the Bison population went up.

[Huntin Hounds]

I agree that it is unrealistic to have Bison in even half of their former range, but we do have quite a few areas that could support bison herds without problems with private property. Look at all the wilderness areas in Idaho, Montana, Washington , Oregon, ect. They don't all have to be herds in the thousands. I believe there is a small herd of bison in the book cliffs in Utah. Bearpaw may have some knowledge of these animals? The point is we can have more than just one place that has wild bison herds. We regard the bison as one of the iconic figures of our country and we can't keep them in more then token populations. It's really kind of sad.

On to brucellosis. First it was brought to this country by European cows that infected the uninfected bison herds. Second elk also carry brucellosis in Montana, and are thought to be the animal responsible for the latest transmissions to cows. The Montana department of livestock has been trying to get management authority of Montana elk for years. If they ever do they will manage elk just like bison. I don't believe there is a way to get rid of brucellosis from our wild game herds. We just need to find areas where conflict will be at a minimum.

http://fwp.mt.gov/mtoutdoors/HTML/director/SO08.htm here is an article by Montana fish wildlife and parks that talks about brucellosis.

My last point is private property rights. No farmer or rancher should have to wake up and find a herd of bison destroying their wheat field or breaking down their fences. In areas with high agricultural use, bison should not be considered for restoration. In areas with limited to no private property, bison should be considered for restoration. We have an obligation to keep wild animals and wild places for our future generations to experience.

[bearpaw]

It's impossible to restore bison to all their former range and numbers because it doesn't exist, just as it's impossible with wolves. 

Bearpaw, I actually agree with you as far as bison go. There would have to be too many changes for it to even be possible.  It would totally upset the food supply in this country.  But we can make room for a few wolves.  We just disagree on what a "few" means.  And you refuse to admit any benefit wolves might create.

Unfortunately wolves simply were not needed. There is no real benefit, only liabilities to having wolves in the lower 48. I understand we are stuck with them and not really opposed to small numbers of them that do not impact herd numbers, livestock, or our way of life. The problem is all the wolf lovers never want them managed, they are creating most of the opposition with their narrow mindedness and desire to use the wolf to limit hunting opportunities and ranching.


I would love to see bison herds in more areas where they do not impact ranchers. But that needs to be done responsibly.

Huntin Hounds, yes I know about the Book Cliff's bison, they first accidentally escaped from a rancher and then I think UDWR has added to them, they aren't hunted yet, but someday they will. There are currently two hunted herds in Utah on Antelope Island and in the Henry Mountains.

[Northway]

Hi guys.. stupid question here: What about transplanting the excess bison to another state/area with suitable habitat with the intention of growing it into a huntable population?

I agree if the brucellosis can be eliminated before they leave the area. Don't know if that is possible?

I don't believe there has ever been a documented case of bison transmitting brucellosis to cattle? I wonder whether that argument is a tool to keep bison out of other areas, because that will absolutely create conflicts with the cattle industry.

The American Prairie Reserve is trying to create a large space in Montana that will include bison, and will also provide open access to hunters. From their website:

"The goal of the American Prairie Reserve project is to create the largest and newest wildlife reserve in the lower forty-eight states, consisting of more than three million acres of both private and public lands. American Prairie Reserve intends to acquire and manage approximately 500,000 private acres, which will serve to glue together roughly three million acres of existing public land. Multi-jurisdictional management of the eventual wildlife complex will be conducted by the various entities with land ownership and wildlife management authority including the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, U.S. Bureau of Land Management, Montana Department of State Lands, Montana Fish, Wildlife & Parks and American Prairie Reserve. Conservation biologists have determined that a mixed-grass prairie would need to be approximately 5,000 square miles (roughly 3.2 million acres) in size in order to be a fully functioning ecosystem that supports the full complement of native prairie biodiversity and provides room to endure episodic localized natural phenomena like fire, disease and winter ice events."

Montana is about 94 million acres, so the scope of that project is significant.

[DOUBLELUNG]

Bison do eat grass, and damage fences, and transmit brucellosis.  However, those aren't the significant issues; it is a matter of conflicting management between two federal agencies, and the adjacent states and their ranchers get caught up in the bull pucky as a result.

The US Department of Interior-Park Service, and US Department of Agriculture-Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service create an impossible regulatory scenario.  The Park Service pretends YNP is an ecosystem, and allows no management of wildlife within its borders, so YNP is a reservoir for brucellosis (yes, it came from Europe and cows).  At the same time, if brucellosis is detected domestic cattle, USDA revokes the states' brucellosis-free status, affecting the viability of every ranching operation in the state.

The states of Montana and Wyoming (maybe Idaho has been affected too) are between a rock and a hard place, thanks to the regulatory empires of these two departments of the federal government and their unwillingness to work with the states to attain a reasonable compromise.  Montana, in particular, has been dumped on for being forced to take draconian measures to attempt to prevent a brucellosis infection detection in cattle.  It is not a question of the disease consequences on individual ranches, it is the federal hammer on the entire states' cattle industry - it is a regulatory conundrum for which the states are thrashed by the feds.