another one bites the dust. (Im Sad)

[wolfbait]

I would have to agree with Bigmacc, a couple of years after hunting cougars with hounds was shut down we had a problem like we are having now, except now it is far worse. The screamers are those folk from the wet side, they want that cat killed, they don't want to have to worry about their kids playing out in the snow or waiting for the school bus.

When a cougar causes problems on the wet side, that cougar is hunted down immediately and removed one way or the other. I think wolves will have a very different affect on them, they are starting to see the problems we on the east side are having, and they are learning from us, they are learning about the lies that the environmentalists $$ AKA the USFWS and WDFW have told.


By the way the Wet-side has many wolves already, WDFW just does not want to confirm any wolf packs there at this time, isn't that right Donny.

Some of those screamers are also now living in places where there were no houses prior to the ban and a number of them are out of state transplants. The ban was a bad idea, no doubt, but if you pay attention you'll find newer housing developments are often involved.

Tons of wolves west of the mountains?     They must be the rejects because we have a whole mess of elk with hoof rot that don't seem to be getting eaten.

Those who voted to shut down hound hunting seemed to be the most vocal when cougars eat fluffy off their porch, they want to know why cougars are coming into their yards etc..

" if you pay attention you'll find newer housing developments are often involved." I have paid "attention" and I don't see cougars or wolves honing in on new housing developments. Are you suggesting that the cougars and wolves need more habitat?

 Sometime in the near future WDFW will have to jump to their feet again and scream "first wolf pack" on the west side in 70 years, but only after they cannot deny wolves are there anymore. By then, like the east side you will already have several packs which WDFW will ignore until they are forced to confirm.

Existence of Many Wolves Ignored

Bangs also explained that it was too difficult to locate individual wolves or small groups of wolves that were not packs and emphasized that the existence of these wolves was not important to recovery. Once the transplanted wolves began pairing and successfully raising young, the Nez Perce and FWS recovery teams declined to investigate sightings of individual wolves or groups of wolves unless they involved livestock killing.

But even then, if the livestock was moved to a different location and/or the wolf predation stopped, any investigation abruptly ceased. In some parts of Idaho where wolf populations are excessive, including the county we live in, local citizens report frustration over the Wolf Teams’ refusal to investigate reports of apparent pack activity unless there is evidence of at least two pups.

The excuse used by the FWS/NezPerce Team for its failure to investigate such activity is that it is too expensive but it also is not interested in recording wolves unless they meet the confirmed wolf criteria agreed upon by Bangs, Ted Koch and Steve Fritts in 1994. The exception is the need to radio-collar one or more wolves to facilitate removal of one or more members of a pack that continues to kill livestock.

http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf

[AspenBud]

I would have to agree with Bigmacc, a couple of years after hunting cougars with hounds was shut down we had a problem like we are having now, except now it is far worse. The screamers are those folk from the wet side, they want that cat killed, they don't want to have to worry about their kids playing out in the snow or waiting for the school bus.

When a cougar causes problems on the wet side, that cougar is hunted down immediately and removed one way or the other. I think wolves will have a very different affect on them, they are starting to see the problems we on the east side are having, and they are learning from us, they are learning about the lies that the environmentalists $$ AKA the USFWS and WDFW have told.


By the way the Wet-side has many wolves already, WDFW just does not want to confirm any wolf packs there at this time, isn't that right Donny.

Some of those screamers are also now living in places where there were no houses prior to the ban and a number of them are out of state transplants. The ban was a bad idea, no doubt, but if you pay attention you'll find newer housing developments are often involved.

Tons of wolves west of the mountains?     They must be the rejects because we have a whole mess of elk with hoof rot that don't seem to be getting eaten.

" if you pay attention you'll find newer housing developments are often involved." I have paid "attention" and I don't see cougars or wolves honing in on new housing developments. Are you suggesting that the cougars and wolves need more habitat?

No, I'm pointing out a fact. The I-5 corridor, unlike your backwoods, has seen explosive growth for decades. Things changed after the hound ban, more cats survived and more land got developed for housing in places closer to where the cats live. Places that had them even prior to the ban.

Seriously, the population of this state has done nothing but grow, more encounters are guaranteed hound hunting ban or no hound hunting ban. Throw in out of state transplants who have never lived in a state with cougars in numbers and you have a bunch of people who squeal like little stuck pigs at the first sign of them.

There are a lot of former back water towns that now act as bedrooms to bigger cities and a lot of those have been built up in the last 20-30 years.

[bearpaw]

The greenies don't want them in the west side urban areas because they know that tolerance for wolves will drop. Case in point, Representative Kretz from NE WA wrote a bill to translocate wolves to western WA so everyone could share in the wolf love. There was fierce opposition to the bill and it got nowhere....

[AspenBud]

The greenies don't want them in the west side urban areas because they know that tolerance for wolves will drop. Case in point, Representative Kretz from NE WA wrote a bill to translocate wolves to western WA so everyone could share in the wolf love. There was fierce opposition to the bill and it got nowhere....

Time for my 

I don't agree with you. I think the inflated requirements for the wolf plan are intended to be used as padding for wolf numbers because WDFW recognizes that wolves will experience heavy hunting pressure in the beginning when a season opens. Any plan that would involve moving wolves around defeats the purpose as the goal is to likely get the population to a point such that it spills over into the west side. Wolves west of the mountains will have different issues surrounding them than in the east, they'll have less hunting pressure, particularly on private timber lands that are locked up from vehicle access, and by the time they are there the numbers east of the mountains will be high enough to withstand just about anything.

That's what I think is going on anyhow.

[buckfvr]

The greenies don't want them in the west side urban areas because they know that tolerance for wolves will drop. Case in point, Representative Kretz from NE WA wrote a bill to translocate wolves to western WA so everyone could share in the wolf love. There was fierce opposition to the bill and it got nowhere....

Time for my 

I don't agree with you. I think the inflated requirements for the wolf plan are intended to be used as padding for wolf numbers because WDFW recognizes that wolves will experience heavy hunting pressure in the beginning when a season opens. Any plan that would involve moving wolves around defeats the purpose as the goal is to likely get the population to a point such that it spills over into the west side. Wolves west of the mountains will have different issues surrounding them than in the east, they'll have less hunting pressure, particularly on private timber lands that are locked up from vehicle access, and by the time they are there the numbers east of the mountains will be high enough to withstand just about anything.

That's what I think is going on anyhow.

" padding for wolf numbers " that is indicative of the whole wrongfully managed wolf plan.......deceitful, dishonest, and secretive closed door practices by wdfw means the whole wolf program will spiral out of control as expected, but probably worse than expected.  Worse for sure in n.e. wa. .

[AspenBud]

The greenies don't want them in the west side urban areas because they know that tolerance for wolves will drop. Case in point, Representative Kretz from NE WA wrote a bill to translocate wolves to western WA so everyone could share in the wolf love. There was fierce opposition to the bill and it got nowhere....

Time for my 

I don't agree with you. I think the inflated requirements for the wolf plan are intended to be used as padding for wolf numbers because WDFW recognizes that wolves will experience heavy hunting pressure in the beginning when a season opens. Any plan that would involve moving wolves around defeats the purpose as the goal is to likely get the population to a point such that it spills over into the west side. Wolves west of the mountains will have different issues surrounding them than in the east, they'll have less hunting pressure, particularly on private timber lands that are locked up from vehicle access, and by the time they are there the numbers east of the mountains will be high enough to withstand just about anything.

That's what I think is going on anyhow.

" padding for wolf numbers " that is indicative of the whole wrongfully managed wolf plan.......deceitful, dishonest, and secretive closed door practices by wdfw means the whole wolf program will spiral out of control as expected, but probably worse than expected.  Worse for sure in n.e. wa. .

Call it whatever you want, I just don't see it any other way. They are inflating the numbers in an effort to make sure the dogs will always be here...and unless you own livestock, hunt, or are an outfitter most people either don't care they are here or actually want them. It's not so much a greenie problem as it is an apathy problem.

[Special T]

So much for "Sound Science" being the basis for WDFW making decisions.