How Wolves Change Rivers

[Ripper]

This piece of propaganda has been going around on Facebook. I don't know if it's been on here or not but I thought I'd share it. I think it's a joke, but who am I. It states that with the introduction of wolves to Yellowstone, the deer and elk have moved into the mountains and now the river bottoms are more secure and furtle. This creates better habitat for frogs and beavers. Well enjoy the frogs and beavers because the deer and elk are dead! Like the wolves simply moved the deer and elk elsewhere, like they are river bottom police.  Give me a break! Enjoy, it is a beautifully made piece.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/how-wolves-change-rivers/#.Uw5ggflgwfA.facebook

[quadrafire]

Tag for later viewing

[wence5]

I saw a YouTube video last night that was saying the same thing. Some wire rimed tree huger from the interior dept. was fawning all over the Willow brush and the frogs and the Coots that now inhabit the rivers and pond. Thanks to the beautiful Grey Wolves, which BTW were never an indigenous species to the Yellowstone ecosystem, we have gotten rid of the elk that were destroying this fragile ecosystem. 

What a load of bull!

[Northway]

This piece of propaganda has been going around on Facebook. I don't know if it's been on here or not but I thought I'd share it. I think it's a joke, but who am I. It states that with the introduction of wolves to Yellowstone, the deer and elk have moved into the mountains and now the river bottoms are more secure and furtle. This creates better habitat for frogs and beavers. Well enjoy the frogs and beavers because the deer and elk are dead! Like the wolves simply moved the deer and elk elsewhere, like they are river bottom police.  Give me a break! Enjoy, it is a beautifully made piece.

http://www.filmsforaction.org/watch/how-wolves-change-rivers/#.Uw5ggflgwfA.facebook

But from your perspective, who cares whether it's true or not? Is not your preference either way going to be for more deer and more elk? In my opinion, at least there's honesty in that argument as opposed to both sides continuously trying to discredit anything that either shows that wolves are helping an ecosystem or that they are negatively affecting ungulate numbers.

[Hornseeker]

I didn't look at the link, but there is some truth to the general premiss.... the elk, with virtually no predators in Yellowstone were just camped out in the fertile river bottoms, near the water and just wreaking havoc on the riparian vegetation and messing up the stream banks, making them more vulnerable to erosion during high water... its give and take... as a riparian ecologist I am sensitive to the riparian health issue... but as an elk junky... I am also very sensitive to their numbers tanking... sad deal.

by the way, Beavers are Gooo-ooood for the system in general... they are tough in areas where they cause probs with human development... but in the wilds they are so incredibly beneficial to riverine health...

Parting statement: Shoot Wolves, Trap Wolves... Kill Wolves.

[bearpaw]

Wolfers like to use the argument that we must have wolves to save the streams and willows and the planet. In reality hunters can reduce elk numbers whenever needed if the huggers will allow hunters to hunt.

The only reason wolves may have had any effect in Yellowstone is because they didn't allow hunters to hunt the elk. Now we have an overpopulation of wolves removing excessive numbers of elk from not only Yellowstone but from numerous states.

[Jonathan_S]

Well I'm sure a lot of use saw this coming right?  They had to make it a good thing that elk were gone, so now the script is, "elk were damaging the environment so they had to go"

Once they've changed the circumstances, they can re-write history.

People eat that crap up when they hear it (I don't mean knowledgeable outdoors people).

[bearpaw]

you nailed it JohnathanS

[Ripper]

Exactly Johnathan. People eat it up. This is the exact same thing Disney did years ago, they put out all these wildlife movies as an attempt to sway kids away from hunting. I am for what has happened with the habitat being improved, but like bearpaw said, the same thing could have happened with hunting. Now we have to deal with a run away wolf problem. How long is going to take to get the deer and elk numbers back up around the park?

[kentrek]

Lol wait....so when you remove a huge portion of the grazers vegetation grows ?

And when vegitation grows other animals take advantage of it ? This makes so much sense to me know 


I still missed the part where they say these new creatures taking advantage of the extra vegetation are much much more important than the other..natural animals that used to take advantage of the same vegitation...

[Jonathan_S]

I still missed the part where they say these new creatures taking advantage of the extra vegetation are much much more important than the other..natural animals that used to take advantage of the same vegitation...

Along those same lines:  how come there is no enviro group concerned with the Caribou population in NE Washington and N Idaho?  All this love for the non-endangered wolves and one of the most precarious species in existence now has to share home-range with wolves   

I know this is a rhetorical question.  Of course they're uninterested because they don't really care about any species.  They want to end hunting and logging.  The ends justify the means for them.  Screw the caribou, screw the elk, but watch out for that bat.

[Elkaholic daWg]

I still missed the part where they say these new creatures taking advantage of the extra vegetation are much much more important than the other..natural animals that used to take advantage of the same vegitation...

Along those same lines:  how come there is no enviro group concerned with the Caribou population in NE Washington and N Idaho?  All this love for the non-endangered wolves and one of the most precarious species in existence now has to share home-range with wolves   

I know this is a rhetorical question.  Of course they're uninterested because they don't really care about any species.  They want to end hunting and logging.  The ends justify the means for them.  Screw the caribou, screw the elk, but watch out for that bat.

Until the Caribou elk  and deer are endangered and hunting is done, by then the GP is propagandized into believing the 2 A was meant for hunting and it isn't needed either

[kentrek]

They dont care because they dont spend anytime in the woods and dont witness the wastelands void of life after a pack moves out...I love the part about the rabbits/mice/birds/foxes are all booming in population....just goes to show how credible these people are

They all seem to disappear after wolves move in..and I can tell you that from first hand experience


Idk why we dont bring back more species  wooly mammoth ? Sabor tooth ? Why not right ? I know lets introduce tigers into north america aswell...just think of the creatures we could save

[Wilderness Addict]

It is a shame that most people I know would watch that video and have a happy feeling after it was over. The statement I found most interesting was something about hunters not being able to keep elk numbers in check. Doesn't the government set hunting regulations? Heck, I think the "Yakima Nation" truck should be sent there.
Bison don't hurt the river beds. If you've ever fished Slough Creek or Yellowstone River, you probably watched bison in the water. We so are losing the fight. 

[vandeman17]

My dad sent me this video about a week ago. I see the merit behind it but don't agree how they try to tie it all into wolves being the "solution". I am all about a balanced ecosystem between predator and prey but I would love to see what these yahoos have to say down the road when there are too few deer, elk and other critters because of all the predators. I also lost a lot of respect for it as soon as I heard them say "deer calves". 

[seth30]

I hear that with the wolves driving out the coyotes that the rodent population in Yellowstone is out of control.

[stuckalot]

On the bright side there should be lots of families flocking to Yellowstone to check out the willows, frogs and beavers! Who'd want to go and look at a bunch of deer, elk and moose anyway...

[wolfbait]

My dad sent me this video about a week ago. I see the merit behind it but don't agree how they try to tie it all into wolves being the "solution". I am all about a balanced ecosystem between predator and prey but I would love to see what these yahoos have to say down the road when there are too few deer, elk and other critters because of all the predators. I also lost a lot of respect for it as soon as I heard them say "deer calves". 

More wilderness-with corridors will be the new USFS, USFS, WDFW talking points. The main reasons for predators, and their prey survival.  Watch and see!

[quadrafire]

Sounds like Piers Morgan...........Bet that was his farewell speech from MSNBC or wherever he was broadcasting.

[snowpack]

I heard that when a wolf licks you, it cures all that ails you!  And wolves save the economy too--wolves extirpated in 1929...stock market crashed and Great Depression began, then wolves introduced into Yellowstone in the mid 90's and shortly thereafter the economy was strongest ever...coincidence?  I think not!  Also, the real reason that the British lost the Revolutionary War was because wolves drove them out.

[Duffer]

Why has no one addressed the obvious impact this has on toad-licking and toad-lickers?

[bearpaw]

I heard that when a wolf licks you, it cures all that ails you!  And wolves save the economy too--wolves extirpated in 1929...stock market crashed and Great Depression began, then wolves introduced into Yellowstone in the mid 90's and shortly thereafter the economy was strongest ever...coincidence?  I think not!  Also, the real reason that the British lost the Revolutionary War was because wolves drove them out.

 

[wence5]

Until the Caribou elk  and deer are endangered and hunting is done, by then the GP is propagandized into believing the 2 A was meant for hunting and it isn't needed either
[/quote]

I think you hit the nail on the head. Wolves are just a piece of a much larger and more sinister puzzle. Most lib's and people that don't own firearms have attached the 2A to hunting. Do away with hunting, why would anyone need a gun, so let's do away with the 2A.

[Jonathan_S]

Why has no one addressed the obvious impact this has on toad-licking and toad-lickers?

listen to the man!

[seth30]

On the bright side there should be lots of families flocking to Yellowstone to check out the willows, frogs and beavers! Who'd want to go and look at a bunch of deer, elk and moose anyway...

  I was wondering where I could go to see some willows

[denali]

meh.. till they chew the base of dams and tear out nets. just another greenie fantasy