Point creep for elk in Washington

[Clearcut]

So your telling there's still a chance 

[Killmore]

So I'm 52 years old, I got 15 points, Probably will not draw while I'm alive so I will have my kids keep apply for me when I'm dead and I will have them report back here just to let you guys know how long it took. Then they can put the permit in with my ashes

[Curly]

I look at the chart and it gives me hope.  My odds are actually increasing.  I'm one of the guys that got screwed when this category system went into effect; I'd just drawn a cow permit the year before the new system started so I went into the category system zeroed out.     

But according to the chart, my odds are slightly increasing each year...........    










Actually, I'm not that optimistic  about the system.  I still think it sucks.  I still blame Dave Ware for it and I'm bitter about the whole permit system.  And I'm mad at myself too for being a chump and buying permit apps still even though I hate the system.

[NWWA Hunter]

Impressive system huh?  while I would jump at the chance to hunt branched bulls on the eastside (my ideal hunt) I will have to stick with otc opportunity to annually harvest monsters on the westside. Although I would dig an opportunity at one of the nooksack booners.

Nooksack elk are classified by b&c as Rocky Mountain elk so the minimums are higher. I doubt anyone has killed a booner there. Just real nice elk.

[Sitka_Blacktail]

  I'm one of the guys that got screwed when this category system went into effect; I'd just drawn a cow permit the year before the new system started so I went into the category system zeroed out.     

Everybody got screwed.  If they had to change it, (which I say they didn't) they should have zeroed out everybody and started fresh. Or, they should have allowed you to keep your points but not give them to you in each new category. You should have been forced to pick a category that you kept your points in or allowed you to spread your total points out in different categories.

Say you had 16 points. You could have put those points all in Quality Bull, or taken 10 points in Quaility Bull and 6 points in Cow. Or some other configuration. But you should have been stuck with your 16 points. You shouldn't have been given 16 points in every category so you were at the front of the line in every category.

But preference points in general are a scam to make you think they up your odds so you'll apply more often and spend more money. They aren't about fairness.

[Curly]

  I'm one of the guys that got screwed when this category system went into effect; I'd just drawn a cow permit the year before the new system started so I went into the category system zeroed out.     

Everybody got screwed.  If they had to change it, (which I say they didn't) they should have zeroed out everybody and started fresh. Or, they should have allowed you to keep your points but not give them to you in each new category. You should have been forced to pick a category that you kept your points in or allowed you to spread your total points out in different categories.

Say you had 16 points. You could have put those points all in Quality Bull, or taken 10 points in Quaility Bull and 6 points in Cow. Or some other configuration. But you should have been stuck with your 16 points. You shouldn't have been given 16 points in every category so you were at the front of the line in every category.

But preference points in general are a scam to make you think they up your odds so you'll apply more often and spend more money. They aren't about fairness.

Exactly.

And just think of this one too.  When I get to be a senior and qualify for applying in that category, there will be guys my age that will already have 16 points in that category compared to my zero.  How is that fair?  The only ones with that many points in that category should be guys in their 80's; they are the ones that deserve to draw.  Why would I apply in that category when there will be so many other guys with lots of points?

This whole deal still pisses me off today almost as much as when they implemented it.  The category thing wouldn't have been such a bad idea if they would have made everyone choose what category their points were to be placed.  I still wouldn't care much for it, but I can see some benefit for allowing guys to apply for cow or doe permits without losing bull or buck points, but the way they went about it just sucks.

This category system got implemented much like ObamaCare.  It got pushed down our throats with little to no time to comment on it.  And when we did comment, they had already spent so much money on the system, there was no way they were going to wait or change it.

The problem I see is they have too many categories, too many people with lots of points, and too few permits available.  (I agree that the points really should have been zero'd out......and actually, they really should have just gotten rid of the point system altogether, but I'm sure they would have thought that would lose money).

[WDFW Hates ME!!!]

When i got my points back for being kicked out of the Mt. Adams wilderness due to the fire i got a table of all my points in the mail to prove that they had been restored. I have points in categories that i have not applied in.

It looks like they saved time and money by just giving you points across the board. I have points in the disabled and 65 and over categories. It is the same amount of points i had when the new system was implemented.

I am not sure anything will ever change. They are in to deep, and they rely on the money the points bring now. It would be like kicking someone off welfare before they found a means to replace that lost income. Not going to happen.

[snowpack]

I would guess they would need to add more permits in order to start clearing out point holders to bring the odds back in favor of happening within someone's lifetime.  I can't see how they could really add more permits without taking from elsewhere--either a few days from the general seasons or permit only all together for the unit that has the coveted tags.  As I understand it, the units with such high numbers of applicants are spike only for the general seasons, so it would take a few years to start seeing enough extra bulls to add permits.  But with all the wolves showing up over there, who knows what would really play out?

[dreamingbig]

I have been pushing point creep for the past five years and my take is people don't want to believe it.  The system is designed to make money more than to be equitable.


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[JLS]

Everybody got screwed.  If they had to change it, (which I say they didn't) they should have zeroed out everybody and started fresh. Or, they should have allowed you to keep your points but not give them to you in each new category. You should have been forced to pick a category that you kept your points in or allowed you to spread your total points out in different categories.

....and can I get an AMEN.  Spot on right here.  A lot of folks really got screwed by people all of a sudden jumping in line with 12 points out of nowhere.

Here are the cliff notes of what Bob is saying:  Your odds may suck, really suck, or totally suck and can suck more, the same, or less depending on how many points you have.

[JLS]

I am not sure anything will ever change. They are in to deep, and they rely on the money the points bring now. It would be like kicking someone off welfare before they found a means to replace that lost income. Not going to happen.

Not to mention the uprising by folks that do have a fair number of points that are still wondering why they don't draw a Wenaha tag.  Too many folks are too vested in this system to ever buy off on changing it.

I have very few points and don't lose any sleep over it.  I would just as soon pull a few overtime shifts and do an out of state hunt as wring my hands over why I didn't draw a needle out of a haystack.