cougars killing wolves

[cougarbart]

problem is deer are not a species of choice for wolves! thats like saying cougars eat 20 turkeys a year, turkeys are not choice species for cougars!

[Bob33]

problem is deer are not a species of choice for wolves! thats like saying cougars eat 20 turkeys a year, turkeys are not choice species for cougars!

They are for more hunters than any other specie.

[singleshot12]

problem is deer are not a species of choice for wolves! thats like saying cougars eat 20 turkeys a year, turkeys are not choice species for cougars!

They are for more hunters than any other specie.

Which comes to mind that man is the top predator thus making it natural to eliminate competition. But also makes you wonder maybe it's the human race that's out of control and needs to be managed...lol

[wolfbait]

So wolves are pack animals and cougars usually solo. Wolves kill and keep killing after their fill. Cougars kill once bury and come back till they finish it? And in one on one combat the cougar usually wins correct?

All I know is my cat will play with and kill birds and rodents on a full belly so would think cougars would be the same

As Buckfvr stated cougars will kill everyday, I have ridden through cougar "ambush" sites and found deer laying all over half eaten, they mostly just ate into liver etc.. In 2008 we fed over a hundred head of deer with our horses and mules, one night a cougar came through and killed 7 first year fawns, never ate a bit just killed them to kill. This year we had six deer.

A few days ago a friend of mine found where a wolf had run a coyote into a woven wire fence, killed it and then ate it. This was within a mile of Twisp.

[wolfbait]

A cougar can eat two deer a week. A wolf eats 20 deer per year.

Which would you rather see survive?

 The USFWS illegally introduced wolves, and as many have seen it tip the balance of management in a very negative way.  In some states predators such as cougars and bears are managed. WDFW have their own state endangered listing for wolves, and they continue to protect predators, and refuse to acknowledge the impact on the game herds. My guess with WDFW BS'ing the brain-washed things are not likely to change.

[luvtohnt]

A few days ago a friend of mine found where a wolf had run a coyote into a woven wire fence, killed it and then ate it. This was within a mile of Twisp.

Did he watch this happen? If not how does he know the wolf killed the coyote?

problem is deer are not a species of choice for wolves! thats like saying cougars eat 20 turkeys a year, turkeys are not choice species for cougars!

If deer are not a preffered prey species what does the lookout pack eat? (and dont say domestic stock)

Brandon

[wolfbait]

A few days ago a friend of mine found where a wolf had run a coyote into a woven wire fence, killed it and then ate it. This was within a mile of Twisp.

Did he watch this happen? If not how does he know the wolf killed the coyote?

problem is deer are not a species of choice for wolves! thats like saying cougars eat 20 turkeys a year, turkeys are not choice species for cougars!

If deer are not a preffered prey species what does the lookout pack eat? (and dont say domestic stock)

Brandon

Are your the same luvtohnt that sided with jackelope and wacoyote back in 2009 and 10? The settle down and wait for delisting crew?

Can you read sign? I'm sure you don't have much trouble with stop signs, but have you ever been able to tell what killed what by the tracks on the ground, or haven't they taught you that yet in college?

Wolf tracks and other sign prove the wolf killed and ate the coyote, I might even be able to show you some pictures, but first I need permission. I will see if I can post them.

As far as wolves and their prey, wolves will kill anything and everything to survive, but you already know that. Are you working for WDFW as a biologist yet?

[Humptulips]

Cougars are  different then wolves, in the fact they will bury their kills and eat on them later, wolves eat their fill and go kill again. Past studies reported that one cougar will kill fifty deer per year.

I don't believe this is true as a rule. I've seen quite a few cougar kills and my Dad was a long time houndman so chased a number. Here's what I think happens or at least what I've observed. A cougar  or family of cougar makes a kill they will fill up and then go lay up somewhere to digest. When they get up they go hunting. If they make another kill they don't go back to the first. So I think in a area with plentiful game often you will find cougar kills that have been eaten on once or twice and a lot left. If the game is scarce they will keep going back until it is cleaned up or near cleaned up.

I really don't think it matters a lot. They are both unmanaged predator populations in this state and their effect is additive.

[cougarbart]

brandon! i would be willing to bet elk, and moose are the preferred species! mostly because these two species are known to stop and fight wolves! im not saying deer aren't on their diet but i know the strawberry pack really preferred moose when they moved into that area! i have also noticed in idaho where we hunt the wolves really go after the moose and elk!

[luvtohnt]

One in the same, Wolfbait. For what it is worth I am still part of the sit back and wait crowd. I find this whole proccess extremely interesting. I am glad WDFW has taken action in some cases (the wedge), and very much enjoy reading any and all wolf artcles, reports, ect.... I very much value yours, and others opinion on this issue, especially since you live up there.

Yes, I can read sign as well as anyone. But I dont jump to conclusions, and assume that just because there are tracks whatever made those tracks is the culprit. Maybe the coyote was running from dogs or another rancher when he got tangled in the wire. Wolves as well as coyotes are very scent oriented, so the smell of a dead coyote could attract a hungry wolf. I would love to see pictures, maybe I could learn something

FYI, no I am not a WDFW biologist (yet)

Brandon

[luvtohnt]

brandon! i would be willing to bet elk, and moose are the preferred species! mostly because these two species are known to stop and fight wolves! im not saying deer aren't on their diet but i know the strawberry pack really preferred moose when they moved into that area! i have also noticed in idaho where we hunt the wolves really go after the moose and elk!

If they are present it would depend on density. Usually (from my extensive reading) the ungulate species with the highest density becomes the preffered food source.There is a very, very limited supply of moose and elk in the Methow valley, but the Lookout pack seems to flourish. There was even a pack in Yellowstone that preffered bison even though elk were plentiful. Just my 

[cougarbart]

oh they will adapt to whatever food source they need to survive!  I know the cct tribe has been doing research on the couple of packs on their rez and moose have been the preferred choice in the early stages of residency!  They say mule deer is preferred prey of a cougar, doesn't mean whitetail and turkeys don't hit the menu! They adapt to whatever prey is abundant! My guess is the lookout pack will move south to the bigger elk herds before to long!

[Houndhunter]

I just watched a documentary about this, surprised it has not been brought up, about this exact topic. It was in the bitter root range, was very interesting. The guy was trying to find out more about wolf and lion interactions. What he found was that in areas where wolves don't group up, lions are the top predator. They will kill wolves, but in areas that wolves group up in numbers they were the top predator such as yellow stone park. Was a good watch, think it was called cougars vs wolves.


My opinion is wolves in most area's are the top predator, a lion can take on two wolves but any more and wolves have the upper hand

[bearpaw]

Cougars are  different then wolves, in the fact they will bury their kills and eat on them later, wolves eat their fill and go kill again. Past studies reported that one cougar will kill fifty deer per year.

I don't believe this is true as a rule. I've seen quite a few cougar kills and my Dad was a long time houndman so chased a number. Here's what I think happens or at least what I've observed. A cougar  or family of cougar makes a kill they will fill up and then go lay up somewhere to digest. When they get up they go hunting. If they make another kill they don't go back to the first. So I think in a area with plentiful game often you will find cougar kills that have been eaten on once or twice and a lot left. If the game is scarce they will keep going back until it is cleaned up or near cleaned up.

I really don't think it matters a lot. They are both unmanaged predator populations in this state and their effect is additive.

From what I've seen you are both correct, depends on the cougar, some bury, some don't. The majority of kills I find are mostly eaten if the cat has been left undisturbed, I'm often amazed at how little is left. I've also seen cats come back a week or two later (during winter) to dig up and chew on bones from an earlier kill. Sometimes they do leave uneaten portions, but often I think that might have been caused by human, dog, or other disturbance. Wolves will also steal their kills, although I haven't personally seen that yet, I know guys who have seen it a lot in areas with more wolves.

oh they will adapt to whatever food source they need to survive!  I know the cct tribe has been doing research on the couple of packs on their rez and moose have been the preferred choice in the early stages of residency!  They say mule deer is preferred prey of a cougar, doesn't mean whitetail and turkeys don't hit the menu! They adapt to whatever prey is abundant! My guess is the lookout pack will move south to the bigger elk herds before to long!

  I think they target the abundant specie in their area, but a guy I know on one study told me they found evidence of every type of animal in wolf poo. Even cougar and grizzly! Cougars will do the same, whatever gets in the way is on the menu, and occasionally that is wolf or even hound. It's all a matter of survival, people have even eat other people at times to survive.

[boneaddict]

Do they and do they eat them? anyone know? Since we can't really manage them ourselves properly, sure would be nice if cougars did fill their gut with K-9 meat rather than deer and elk.
I wonder if that has ever been considered by dfw and or the pro-wolf(predator) people? Just trying to make sense of the madness and think positive about this whole predator take over the world philosophy we are surrounded by

Most of the time wolves run the cats off their kills.   We watched it for a couple winters.  Idabooner had the best entertainment this state could afford.   
A cat could kill a wolf and probably wouldn't hesitate to do so one on one. 

Currently there are plenty of both around.   Within the last 48 hours I have been within 50 feet of a wolf(Ellensburg) and my Step mother saw a cougar in the outskirts of Winthrop.   The odds of that shouldn't be that good.