PETITION TO REMOVE WDFW DIRECTOR ANDERSON, CHIEF CROWN & DEPUTY CHIEF CENCI

[jackmaster]

bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman 

[ucwarden]

bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman 

Thanks.  It also speaks volumes that many many WDFW officers have said the fully endorse the petition, but won't sign it because of fear of retaliation.

[Curly]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

[jackmaster]

Thats alot of good points curly, maybe they should be separate again, atleast thatay you wont have a guy like cenci, who only really cares about shellfish, running the game side of it, its like tTao by a basketball coach and having him coach football at the pro level, it don't work and it don't mix, it would be nice to have a guy or gal in there that isn't affairs for their career, those are the ones that always end up being " yes men" and really don't keep the big picture at the forefront, someone that will work with the tribes and get them to slow down a bit, get everyone on the same page

[Maverick]

Yeah I think it'd help a lot if fish and game was separate from state. Wish there was a way we could make that happen...

[ucwarden]

Yeah I think it'd help a lot if fish and game was separate from state. Wish there was a way we could make that happen...

I fully agree.  Combining Fisheries and Wildlife was a terrible mistake, and I wish they were still separate agencies.

[idahohuntr]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him. 

[bigtex]

atleast thatay you wont have a guy like cenci, who only really cares about shellfish, running the game side of it

Cenci still does have his fingers in wildlife enforcement. There's basically 4 ways a WDFW Enforcement detachment is ran. 1- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for fish and wildlife enforcement on land. 2- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for land AND marine enforcement. 3- Marine officers who simply do marine enforcement and report to Deputy Chief Cenci. 4- Marine officers who do both marine enforcement AND all enforcement on land and report to Deputy Chief Cenci.

So if your county is under the guidance of a detachment that falls under number 4 then Cenci still is overseeing wildlife enforcement in that county. Counties that have marine officers also responsible for wildlife enforcement include San Juan, Jefferson, Clallam, Pacific, Wahkiakum, Skamania, and Klickitat, I am sure there are others I have missed. Skamania and Klickitat are counties that were recently taken out of the "land" role and placed into the marine role.

[bigtex]

I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

UC, when in your opinion did things start to go down hill significantly? Was it when Bjork took over in the late 90s? When Deputy Chief Jarmon retired in 2007 and Cenci took over as DC? Or has it just been a slow degrade over time that has picked up pace lately?

[Curly]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

Thanks for the input and I do respect your opinion. 

I see this petition as simply a way for WDFW to take notice and admit there are problems and for the commission to take notice.  They should have discussions as to how to fix the issues here.  Maybe this will be the first step toward the legislative action that will help some of the issues......   

[Curly]

As far as Phil Anderson getting the boot, it doesn't bother me.  I'm not sure if he should be let go simply because of the enforcement issues that UCWarden has brought up.  I don't know if Anderson has been negligent in what has been going on in the enforcement end of things, but he is the director, so maybe he should have a better handle on that end of things.

And the way WDFW seems to have a love affair toward predators has to go to the top of WDFW.  I think they could do a lot of things differently.  The wolf plan was a joke; the wdfw bios never should have proposed that plan, and it was very disappointing that the commission approved it.

Then the category system of special permits.  Anderson never should have let that system go out the way it did.  They needed to wait another year to get public input and work out some issues.

Anyway, I wouldn't feel sorry for Anderson if he had to go find a job elsewhere; seems like he isn't up for the job he has now.

And Anderson must know the issues with commercial hunting and tribal abuses...........lack of action on wdfw's part is not acceptable.

[idahohuntr]

Some very good points Curly...my biggest thing is we need to focus on the issues, not specific people...unless like I said there is some specific illegal/unethical act that needs to be addressed. 

[Special T]

Issues and leadership go hand in hand... We arn't talking about bustin chops of a specific warden, we are talking about the general leaderhip of the WDFW... And the individuals who are leading need to be set straight or sent packing...

There is a great saying that applies here... Attitude is a reflection of leadership... If the general attiude by sportmen & WDFW employees is not good, Who's responcibility is it??? I think its the Names in Question. 

[jackmaster]

Issues and leadership go hand in hand... We arn't talking about bustin chops of a specific warden, we are talking about the general leaderhip of the WDFW... And the individuals who are leading need to be set straight or sent packing...

There is a great saying that applies here... Attitude is a reflection of leadership... If the general attiude by sportmen & WDFW employees is not good, Who's responcibility is it??? I think its the Names in Question. 

great leaders are built by great leaders that lead by example, FIRST SERGEANT TONY CORTEZ, taught me that, he was probably the greatest man i have ever known..... WDFW as a whole is seriously degraded at this point and the only way to fix it is a change in leadership, it would be a great job for retired first sergeants and command sergeant majors from RANGER BATS, it would be all about seriously nailing the bad guys  sorry any of you officers out there, but you guys were alittle soft when it came to ...... you know   

[Bob33]

bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman 

My question was not personal, and well intended. I suspect there will be an effort by WDFW to portray this as an effort spearheaded by "a single former disgruntled employee". Anything that lends credence to that will diminish the focus on WDFW.

Carry on.