PETITION TO REMOVE WDFW DIRECTOR ANDERSON, CHIEF CROWN & DEPUTY CHIEF CENCI

[buckfvr]

We are where we're at with  WDFW on their watch.............YES........they need to go asap.  NO EXCUSES.

[ucwarden]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.

As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted.  Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them.  If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess.  He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot.  Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke.  The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's).  He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc.   That alone is no way to do business.

[ucwarden]

atleast thatay you wont have a guy like cenci, who only really cares about shellfish, running the game side of it

Cenci still does have his fingers in wildlife enforcement. There's basically 4 ways a WDFW Enforcement detachment is ran. 1- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for fish and wildlife enforcement on land. 2- Land officers who report to the Regional Captain and are responsible for land AND marine enforcement. 3- Marine officers who simply do marine enforcement and report to Deputy Chief Cenci. 4- Marine officers who do both marine enforcement AND all enforcement on land and report to Deputy Chief Cenci.

So if your county is under the guidance of a detachment that falls under number 4 then Cenci still is overseeing wildlife enforcement in that county. Counties that have marine officers also responsible for wildlife enforcement include San Juan, Jefferson, Clallam, Pacific, Wahkiakum, Skamania, and Klickitat, I am sure there are others I have missed. Skamania and Klickitat are counties that were recently taken out of the "land" role and placed into the marine role.

Bigtex; I would sure like to know who you are (PM me), as you know one hell of a lot about WDFW.
You are again, right on the money

[ucwarden]

I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

UC, when in your opinion did things start to go down hill significantly? Was it when Bjork took over in the late 90s? When Deputy Chief Jarmon retired in 2007 and Cenci took over as DC? Or has it just been a slow degrade over time that has picked up pace lately?

I would say the real turning point was when Jarmon retired and was replaced by Cenci.  At first, all of us were thrilled with Bjork, and even though he has never been a game warden, because he had good deputy chief's he did a good job for the officers.  Then came Cenci.  It started going downhill almost immediately.

[ucwarden]

bob33, have you read his book yet? serious question! i am generally a very skeptical person, but after reading his book my guard came way down, you can tell there is personal issues there but it isnt the catalyst for what UC is doing, here is a guy that it genuine and feels strongly about are wildlife, we have been smoked out by so many crooked damn politicians and leaders that it is hard for pepole to take them at their word anymore, so it is important to some about how they are viewed by others. i know i am just one person, but i beleive in UC and what he is about, it isnt often you get guys like this to stand up and take the lead, and it speaks volumes to the fact that other agents have signed on that have alot to lose, we sportsman dont have anything to lose, cause it has been shown that it doesnt matter what we the sportsman think, because we are losing at every turn, maybe what TODD is doing will chalk one up for the sportsman 

My question was not personal, and well intended. I suspect there will be an effort by WDFW to portray this as an effort spearheaded by "a single former disgruntled employee". Anything that lends credence to that will diminish the focus on WDFW.

Carry on.

You are absolutely correct.  I am sure the damage control is already underway, and you are correct they will blame it all on a "bitter disgruntled former employee".  The problem they will have with this, it that I am joined by an army of former and present employees.

[Special T]

UC you may want to PM Big Tex your # If i were him I would NOT type my name or number on this forum anywhere. 

[ucwarden]

UC you may want to PM Big Tex your # If i were him I would NOT type my name or number on this forum anywhere. 

Will do

[Curly]

Some very good points Curly...my biggest thing is we need to focus on the issues, not specific people...unless like I said there is some specific illegal/unethical act that needs to be addressed.

First off, I think this is a good discussion.  I'm glad you stepped up and gave an opinion as to why you weren't signing the petition.  I think it helps some of us understand that side.  I always like to hear reasons for the way people think and the differing viewpoints.

Secondly, I commend you for sitting on the GMAC, going to those meetings and trying to affect change through those channels.  I don't know how you do it, sitting thru those meetings, giving your input and then seeing what gets implemented.  I'd be very frustrated, myself.  You are a good person.

You have to admit there are things wrong at wdfw, not even just the enforcement side.  The enforcement side of things we know there is something wrong when ex wardens and current wardens are coming forward complaining about issues.  I never even thought much about the enforcement side of wdfw having any problems until UCW joined this site and his book became known.

I've heard that poachers kill as many deer/elk as licensed hunters in this state.  Don't know if that stat is real or not, but even if it is 20% of what is theorized, that is a huge number.  And if the head guy in enforcement's attitude is that he doesn't care about that, then he needs to go.  I want the poachers caught and dealt with harshly..........sadly that doesn't seem to be happening. 

[idahohuntr]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.

As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted.  Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them.  If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess.  He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot.  Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke.  The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's).  He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc.   That alone is no way to do business.

I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago   

My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:

1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW

He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat.  If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him.  I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship. 

Who would you like to see replace him?  Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?

[elk101]

Some very good points Curly...my biggest thing is we need to focus on the issues, not specific people...unless like I said there is some specific illegal/unethical act that needs to be addressed.

First off, I think this is a good discussion.  I'm glad you stepped up and gave an opinion as to why you weren't signing the petition.  I think it helps some of us understand that side.  I always like to hear reasons for the way people think and the differing viewpoints.

Secondly, I commend you for sitting on the GMAC, going to those meetings and trying to affect change through those channels.  I don't know how you do it, sitting thru those meetings, giving your input and then seeing what gets implemented.  I'd be very frustrated, myself.  You are a good person.

You have to admit there are things wrong at wdfw, not even just the enforcement side.  The enforcement side of things we know there is something wrong when ex wardens and current wardens are coming forward complaining about issues.  I never even thought much about the enforcement side of wdfw having any problems until UCW joined this site and his book became known.

I've heard that poachers kill as many deer/elk as licensed hunters in this state.  Don't know if that stat is real or not, but even if it is 20% of what is theorized, that is a huge number.  And if the head guy in enforcement's attitude is that he doesn't care about that, then he needs to go.  I want the poachers caught and dealt with harshly..........sadly that doesn't seem to be happening. 

I think 20% of the licensed hunters would be in the poaching part of it also

[ucwarden]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.

As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted.  Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them.  If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess.  He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot.  Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke.  The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's).  He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc.   That alone is no way to do business.

I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago   

My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:

1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW

He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat.  If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him.  I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship. 

Who would you like to see replace him?  Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?

As for replacing him, I (and almost everyone) would be happy with Rich Phillips (who was just demoted by Crown), several other supervisors in WDFW, or even better- someone from a totally different F&W agency (out-of-state)

[ucwarden]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.

As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted.  Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them.  If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess.  He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot.  Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke.  The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's).  He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc.   That alone is no way to do business.

I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago   

My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:

1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW

He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat.  If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him.  I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship. 

Who would you like to see replace him?  Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?

Also; it's kinda funny that Crown said he wants to start hiring officers who hunt and fish (and you liked that response), since the position he held up until he was handed the chief's job was training and hiring Lt.  He picked the officers we have hired over the last 8 or so years.

[Forks]

How many officers have been hired in the last 8 years?

[elk101]

Are you saying no good officers were hired the last 8 years

[Special T]

I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD...  If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution. 
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!