PETITION TO REMOVE WDFW DIRECTOR ANDERSON, CHIEF CROWN & DEPUTY CHIEF CENCI

[billythekidrock]

I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD...  If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution. 
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!

Wasn't he was just a CSR that got caught in a relationship with his boss?

[bigtex]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.

As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted.  Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them.  If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess.  He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot.  Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke.  The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's).  He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc.   That alone is no way to do business.

I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago   

My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:

1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW

He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat.  If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him.  I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship. 

Who would you like to see replace him?  Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?

Also; it's kinda funny that Crown said he wants to start hiring officers who hunt and fish (and you liked that response), since the position he held up until he was handed the chief's job was training and hiring Lt.  He picked the officers we have hired over the last 8 or so years.

The testing process also changed while Crown was in the hiring Lt. position. Prior to Crown you applied directly to WDFW, you did your written exam which was fish and wildlife oriented with WDFW, you did your physical fitness test with WDFW, and then onto the oral boards (panel interviews). Quickly after Crown took the Hiring Lt. job WDFW started to contract with Public Safety Testing (PST) which does the initial testing for law enforcement, fire and dispatching jobs.

So now when you "apply" for WDFW you are actually applying with PST and telling them to send your scores to WDFW. The fitness test is the same for all agencies in WA so no real change other than it is now PST doing it instead of WDFW. But the actual written exam is your typical law enforcement exam where it's a lot of grammar, math, English language usage, and so on, not law or fish and wildlife oriented at all.

WDFW is getting more applicants now then they were in the final years before they switched over but I think those numbers are a little inflated. It's known for those applying for the PST test that you should basically apply to any agency (over 100 agencies in WA use PST), hope to get hired, then after attending the academy you can move to other agencies. So the number of applicants that want their scores sent to WDFW and that actually want to be a WDFW Officer is probably significantly different. In comparison, before if you didn't want to work for WDFW then obviously you didn't apply to WDFW. But now with these testing services the mindset is basically apply to all agencies, get hired, and move.

I think it was a move to get more applicants but in reality, any massive increase in applicants that WDFW has seen is probably more due to the fact that people are applying for every agency with PST, not actually having that many more people wanting to work for WDFW.

[Special T]

I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD...  If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution. 
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!

Wasn't he was just a CSR that got caught in a relationship with his boss?

CSR?   IF so i don't remember that, was it in his posts?

[billythekidrock]

I would like to take a walk down memory lane for a moment... Just a anecodotal example of how the WDFW acts.
Does Anyone Remeber Inside WDFW? He was the guy who worked in the draws portion of the department. July 08-Nov10 he posted info about how the system works Mostly boiler plate information On his own time at home... He got told to stop and he did... Then got canned and came back... Started looking for work and his last post was this one.
http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,59500.msg782796.html#msg782796
If you ask me this guy was pretty stand up. he only had 50 posts but started a thread to answer questions THAT HE UNDERSTOOD...  If you want to know the kind of people and caliber of the leadership at the WDFW just read his 50 posts... He was the FIRST and LAST person with some "In the know" to talk openly about the WDFW... and he didn't talk about stuff he didn't know... Since then we have some anonymous people like BigTex and a few other Leo's that have piped up, to help inform us and answer questions BUT MUST REMAIN ANONYMOUS! Partially because of liability and i get than, but MOSTLY for fear of retribution. 
Just one more example of how the WDFW Leadership suffers from poor image. I will never forget this Poor guy, and UCWarden will not have a bigger supporter than ME to clean house!

Wasn't he was just a CSR that got caught in a relationship with his boss?

CSR?   IF so i don't remember that, was it in his posts?

Customer Service Representative. He was one of two guys that answered the phone in the Wildlife section.

[Special T]

Yes, Ok... So if he was in "relations" with his Boss its even worse for the WDFW... They canned a subordinate instead of the boss/MGR than knew better... Poor guy needed some loving and gets the boot cause his boss gets some heat. I don't know if that is the case or not, i think its speculation, however it certainly doesn't help them any. 

[billythekidrock]

Yes, Ok... So if he was in "relations" with his Boss its even worse for the WDFW... They canned a subordinate instead of the boss/MGR than knew better... Poor guy needed some loving and gets the boot cause his boss gets some heat. I don't know if that is the case or not, i think its speculation, however it certainly doesn't help them any. 

lol

[Special T]

Where did you get that info BKR? I didn't see it in any of his posts? Is it just an assumption/conjecture of yours?

[bobcat]

He posted about how he got fired, and why.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wacenturion]

I'm a little surprised the petition hasn't gotten more signatures yet.  Guys on this forum are always complaining about wdfw; here's a good chance to try to get them to change. 

Can someone explain why someone would not want to sign the petition?    (other than wdfw employees not risking retaliation)

Is it the fear of the unknown about who might replace these guys?  Personally, I think it would do some good to shake up wdfw. 

Is the root of the problem all the years of having crappy governors in the state?  I'd also like to understand the root cause of what we have...........maybe it all started with the merger of game and fish? 

I have not signed and at this point probably will not simply because I have not seen evidence of singnificant wrong-doing or law breaking by Crown or Anderson...I could care less about Cenci.  If there is evidence of specific illegal or unethical acts by these guys and it is presented to the public I would certainly re-consider.  Furthermore, I see no plan for improvement.  Raising enough heck to get the current admin out with no plan for who the replacement would be seems disastrous if it were to succeed.  This is why I mentioned a while back that the petition should be geared towards issues...not people...unless there is specific, detailed evidence describing illegal and unethical behavior or activities by the people named in the petition.

I don't disagree that there is not substantial room for improvement, but a lot of that improvement needs to come from legislative action...not simply replacing current department heads.  Chief Crown is relatively new to his job and based on what I heard him say at a GMAC meeting I think he might have the right attitude...I am at least willing to give him a chance to implement the things he talked about...and if he doesn't then I will be happy to sign a petition.  With the current Director, I guess he's on there because of guilt by association...given political climate, legislative requirements etc. I think it would be a mistake to try and get rid of him.

First; I respect your opinion and will not support anyone who gives you grief for not signing the petition.
I want to assure you, and others, there soon will be evidence of wrong-doing, but I simply can't release it yet.

As far as Crown goes, he is a nice enough guy, just not right for the position he has been gifted.  Remember that he previously only supervised one single uniformed officer, and now he supervises all of them.  If you speak with any WDFW officers who were FTO (Field Training Officers) they will likely tell you that when he ran the training program (his position before being chief) it was a mess.  He failed to communicate, didn't follow through, and generally dropped the ball a lot.  Also; he was appointed the chief's position after a "nationwide search" which was a joke.  The first thing he did was put Cenci back as a deputy chief, then added yet another deputy chief position (first time there have been two DC's).  He just gave Cenci the position, but made the people seeking the "other" eputy chief position go through interviews etc.   That alone is no way to do business.

I understand you have a strategy and also respect your efforts even if I think there is a "better" approach...you have more information so it may just be a matter of time before I say I was wrong and should have signed weeks ago   

My impression of Crown was luke-warm...he didn't strike me as some great leader or anything, but he did say two key things that I appreciated:

1. Wants to hire officers who are connected to the resource...guys that hunt and fish...not
2. Wants officer interactions to be positive for the 99% of folks who are not law breakers...no "its my job to figure out how to write you a ticket" attitudes in the ranks of WDFW

He also said things that were very evasive that left me feeling like he is definitely a bureaucrat.  If he accomplishes the two things he talked about I'd be happy with him.  I understand talk is cheap but I guess not knowing him I am more willing to give him a shot at righting the ship. 

Who would you like to see replace him?  Is there anybody in WDFW suited for the job that would have a legitimate shot at getting it or do we need somebody from outside?

As for replacing him, I (and almost everyone) would be happy with Rich Phillips (who was just demoted by Crown), several other supervisors in WDFW, or even better- someone from a totally different F&W agency (out-of-state)

Rich has always been on the right side for what it's worth.   

[billythekidrock]

Where did you get that info BKR? I didn't see it in any of his posts? Is it just an assumption/conjecture of yours?

Nope, he posted some of it and sent some by pm.

[Special T]

"Basically I made the mistake a messing around with my boss.  She eventually got mad and had friends up on high.  So I got the crap audited out of me, and they found that I was using Firefox, had used the WILD system to look up an address of the a coworker for Christmas cards, and had looked a sub-shop's webpage to see what I was going to have for dinner.  Life lesson # 3454: Do not date co-workers, especially if she signs your evaluation." Inside WDFW

Missed that post. in my speed check...  poor Mike

If you dangle a T bone steak in front of me i'm gona eat it... Funny because he should have sued the Crap out the WDFW but that is the guys double standard.... since he was a guy... But what does he care, he got some loving...  Still dont help the department...

[ucwarden]

How many officers have been hired in the last 8 years?

A bunch, I am guessing around 20 or so

[ucwarden]

Are you saying no good officers were hired the last 8 years

That is absolutely not what I am saying.  We have hired some really good one's.  My response was just to the fact that Crown apparently implied he was going to do something different in hiring now that he is chief, when he was already responsible for hiring before he was chief.

[bigtex]

The Outdoor Line radio show which airs on Saturdays at 7AM on KIRO had a similar thread with some discussion regarding this petition.

I just checked, it has been removed.

At first I thought maybe the forum doesn't allow petitions, "action alerts" and so on, but they do have an "action alert" thread to send to the Senate to confirm Miranda Wecker as Chair of the Fish and Wildlife Commission.

Rich Phillips who was demoted from Sergeant has probably been on the show about 10 times since the show has been around.

Director Anderson is on it every couple months.

I guess we can see who that show is loyal to...

[idahohuntr]

Has anybody from WDFW or the commission said a peep about this petition?