Goat Tags every other year

[270Shooter]

I have always wondered why there aren't any goat tags for the ALW i hear they are in there so why no tags???

And talked to a guy who is in his 60's that said he had a goat tag for the GPW. Why no tags in that area any more???

[blessed]

I know you're used to TEXING every one but you need to spell things out for us old farts!  :chuckle:Sorry...

[bobcat]

I can help you out...

ALW = Alpine Lakes Wilderness

GPW = Glacier Peak Wilderness

[blessed]

Thanks Bobcat! I don't know why not but I know how to change it.
 Well they need you to go count the billy's, Nannies and kids so they know how many there are . Then write up a boundary line for a new goat unit and present it all to the powers that be. With the budget cuts taking place more volunteer help will really be needed. Be an advocate for your favorite things. 
 Start with a 2 or three year plan and go after it!
A good way to count goats in and area is place a selenium block some where in the open where you can watch them come to it from the distance to count. 
You might need the concent of the WDFW to do that in a wilderness.
What a great School project for science class? 

[Ray]

I have always wondered why there aren't any goat tags for the ALW i hear they are in there so why no tags???

I think it has to do with the size of the local populations. I have seen plenty of goats in the Alpine Lake Wilderness but the groups are usually pretty small in number and scattered. I don't know of any areas in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness which have great populations of goats like some of the other areas where tags are being offered. Certainly I have not seen every goat herd in the Alpine Lakes but from what I have seen I have to honestly say that I am glad they are preserving these populations for now and until their numbers increase. Some of the areas which I have seen them in this region are pretty popular hiking spots and I am glad we don't have hunters shooting the goats in front of 15 hikers.

[blessed]

I have always wondered why there aren't any goat tags for the ALW i hear they are in there so why no tags???

I think it has to do with the size of the local populations. I have seen plenty of goats in the Alpine Lake Wilderness but the groups are usually pretty small in number and scattered. I don't know of any areas in the Alpine Lakes Wilderness which have great populations of goats like some of the other areas where tags are being offered. Certainly I have not seen every goat herd in the Alpine Lakes but from what I have seen I have to honestly say that I am glad they are preserving these populations for now and until their numbers increase. Some of the areas which I have seen them in this region are pretty popular hiking spots and I am glad we don't have hunters shooting the goats in front of 15 hikers.

Yeah that!  I haven't been there that I remember so I couldn't say.

[bankwalker]

i see them all the time on easton ridge.

[WDFW-SUX]

"Mountain goat populations have declined dramatically in some portions of the North Cascades. Research findings suggest historical hunting levels may have been too high and unsustainable for goats."

The state has mismanaged the goats. Far too many tags for a long period of time caused the population to crash.  It will be 50 years or longer if they ever come back.

Colorado has weekday only goat hunts in areas that have large numbers of hikers to lessen the conflicts between user groups.  WDFW could easily do this to open additional areas to hunters but they have little interest expanding the goat hunts after the debacle of the 80's where 218+ tags per year were issued. Now we get 18.


I have been waiting for one colony of goats in Alaska to recover from overhunting and this is the first season in three plus decades that a hunt will be held.  Goats dont turn around quick if ever.

Killing young goats is a really bad idea IMO.

[blessed]

I know it didn't help when the feds all but wiped out the goats in the Olympics, that took away 25 archery tags  

BINGOActionshooter hit it on the nose!
The Olympics were the life line for the State. When the Goats were down in numbers in a unit we trapped out goats from the Olympics and took them to the area . In the nineties the flower sniffers decided that the goats were not native to the area and forced the destruction (bu threatening with law suit) of all the goats in the park and a perimeter of a mile outside the park, ending the lifeline for our goats. How ...you tell me, can the be so sure a few of these goats didn't move in from Canada, or over from the Cascades? There was a Mt. Goat above the town of Lyle in the Columbia Gorge that came from somewhere? and lived there for years. How do they know that the goats they ran off the cliffs and shot from the choppers weren't native?  Isn't it a federal offense to destroy a natural resource?  
The men in the picture are L to R : humm Let me think...oh I'm the middle one.....
I'm telling you, we had a ton of goats till the feds killed 99 percent of the Olympic heard.. ...

[Ray]

Colorado has weekday only goat hunts in areas that have large numbers of hikers to lessen the conflicts between user groups.  WDFW could easily do this to open additional areas to hunters

Great concept. Assuming the goat herd is actually substantial enough to even consider a hunt. A few places where the goats live are just too infested with human traffic for my taste.

i see them all the time on easton ridge.

Just because they exist doesn't mean the herd is able to sustain hunting pressures. I think that they have enough problems recovering and dealing with predators when they are in lesser numbers.

[norsepeak]

another aspect is that there surveys are extremely inaccurate.  Around my house, we have goats dying of old age!  The local goat biologist only flys the area once every other year, and doesn't even fly all of it.  I told him about some populations of goats in the area and he didn't even know about them.  He said he only gets out in the field about 5-8 days a year to look for goats!  I looked at his current data from this falls flight and was very surprised.  He flew the area, and estimated the total population at 125 animals.  I informed him that from one mtn. top within the area during early archery I saw 96 goats.  My estimate is around 300 animals in the whole area, but he disagreed.  So I asked him if thought that I really saw 90% of the total population of a 250 square mile area from one hill?  He didn't have an answer, but he said that sometimes goats are misidentified, implying that I don't know what a goat looks like....he didn't know what to say after I told him that I too have a wildlife biology degree and spend around 200+ days a year out in "goat country"

The point is that if they had accurate info, they would see that the population is actually healthier than they think in some areas of the state.

[blessed]

Very good Norsepak. If we want to have wildlife we need to be pro-active. Keep records!

[Ray]

The point is that if they had accurate info, they would see that the population is actually healthier than they think in some areas of the state.

I would not disagree with that point. I'll still stand by the remarks I have made which were scoped into the Alpine Lakes Wilderness but could apply in other places... There are several areas I know of which only have from a handful of goats to less than two dozen. Not really huntable from my perspective. I am glad too.

[Cougeyes]

My own personal view on this, as had already been stated by someone else was the overharvest in previous decades.  While augmentation from the Olympics to other areas in the state helped recover populations that were declining, in all essense why were they declining in the first place?  I'm pointing the finger at overharvest.  I know my grandfater would draw a tag almost everytime he put in.  I've heard from other people they too would draw tags almost anytime and would always kill goats.  I am not up to par on goat biology but it seems to me that over the years through road building, timber harvest and overall habitat loss.... corridors are being decreased for goats to move from one population to the next, thus creating sets of metapopulations throughout the state that if not managed properly could face serious loss. I think a conservative approach to permits right now is the only way to go. 

I agree that the surveys and sightability while surveying may be flawed or not producing an accurate count or a precise measure from each survey, however i think they count enough goats to get a decent count of the total population.  Regardless of what they're missing (say 100-150 goats ) i dont think its a reason to issue 10+ more tags for each unit, maybe 2-4 more. 

[SHANE(WA)]

I remember the olympic crap, cant beleive that was able to happen amazing
well this isnt the only animal they dont know much about, moose, they deffinately could issue some more tags in some units, huckleberry and threeforks have huge moose populations, I saw 6 bulls in a morning hike up one finger in huckleberry, they issue 6 tags lol so much terrain