The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”

[bearpaw]

EXCLUSIVE! THE BUNDY DAUGHTER SPEAKS OUT ON GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST HER FAMILY!
April 9, 2014
“Sorry this is long but applicable here. By SHIREE BUNDY COX:
I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight.
Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.
My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972.
These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.
These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.
Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.
My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve.
Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers.
They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees.
When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job.
He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.
So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.
In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business.
Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the indangered species card.
You’ve already heard about the desert tortis.
Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years.
Now they’re desperate.
It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff.
Everything they’re doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.
Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you.
They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again.
Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him.
Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed.
Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it.
They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them.
All with our tax money.
They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars.
See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”
http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/04/09/exclusive-the-bundy-daughter-speaks-out-on-government-terrorism-against-her-family/

Laws have changed since 1887.  I hope they arrest the entire family of squatters and take their ranch and bankrupt them.  I have little patience for people who steal from the public...whether its a corrupt politician or a corrupt rancher...hang em all.

What a disgusting school of thought. I bet you would have fit right in as a government agent at Ruby Ridge or Waco. Definitely this mentality is a big part of what is wrong with America. 

[idahohuntr]

EXCLUSIVE! THE BUNDY DAUGHTER SPEAKS OUT ON GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST HER FAMILY!
April 9, 2014
“Sorry this is long but applicable here. By SHIREE BUNDY COX:
I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight.
Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.
My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972.
These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.
These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.
Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.
My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve.
Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers.
They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees.
When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job.
He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.
So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.
In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business.
Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the indangered species card.
You’ve already heard about the desert tortis.
Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years.
Now they’re desperate.
It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff.
Everything they’re doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.
Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you.
They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again.
Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him.
Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed.
Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it.
They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them.
All with our tax money.
They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars.
See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”
http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/04/09/exclusive-the-bundy-daughter-speaks-out-on-government-terrorism-against-her-family/

Laws have changed since 1887.  I hope they arrest the entire family of squatters and take their ranch and bankrupt them.  I have little patience for people who steal from the public...whether its a corrupt politician or a corrupt rancher...hang em all.

Definitely this mentality is a big part of what is wrong with America. 

Oh I completely agree...the sense of entitlement and associated entitlement programs will ruin this country.  This notion that the government (that is us taxpayers) owe you something...whether it is food stamps or free grazing lands is beyond disgusting. 

[AspenBud]

If the government disallows a private landowner to develop his own land for whatever reason, then the only difference between that and the government actually seizing the private land is the piece of paper saying he owns it. He may own it, but without the ability to change it, it might as well be public land. There is one glaring difference: he still gets to pay the taxes to the same government which disallowed him to change it.

So are you opposed to zoning laws too? Or just when ESA law impedes development?

Zoning laws apply to everyone equally and are something you're aware of when you purchase land. That's completely different from someone looking for something on someone's private land with which to stop them from doing what they want on it. I realize nothing's going to satisfy you, Aspen, either in this or any of the wolf conversations. I have little doubt you're a card-carrying member of one of the groups which use public taxpayer funds to sue the government. Is it the Defenders to which you belong? Sure sounds like it. A lot.

I'll ask you your position on elk versus property rights in another way since you refuse to answer the question. If it were found that hoof rot in Roosevelt elk is caused by chemicals that weyerhaeuser uses and they were asked to stop using them and in turn told hunters to take a hike you would think that was okay right? I mean, it's their land right?

No, and I've stated so previously in this thread. I didn't refuse to answer any question. Elk are not included in the ESA. This thread is about abusing the ESA to forward eco-wacko goals. Poisoning the forests with sprayed chemicals, if that's what is indeed happening (you seem to already have the definitive answer for that question), would be something which affects wildlife adversely and shouldn't be tolerated. However, using the ESA to purposely prevent a private landowner from development of their property for no purpose other than to forward an organizations agenda is wrong. In addition, the law which allows people to sue the government with taxpayer money should also be abolished. It's ridiculous and causes frivolous lawsuits. Like I said before, it's obvious that you and Idahohuntr bow to the ESA and all of the great things you can do to manipulate society with it. I'm sure you'd have no problem using taxpayer money to sue the government, either. Discussing any of this further with either of you is pointless. Buh-bye.

The question wasn't about whether elk are on the ESA or not, it was whether you value elk more than property rights and you won't answer that question. There were plenty of guys who liked to hunt sharp tails and sage grouse, but those aren't elk, so property rights were above them as far you were concerned then. Correct?

So in other words as long as the animals you care about aren't affected by land owners' decisions you think people should be able to do what they want and the heck with rest. Got it, thanks.

[bearpaw]

BREAKING: Feds prep for Waco style raid of Bundy Ranch

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWhFm80Phqk

Government plans to euthanize hundreds of desert tortoises after budget cuts to refuge
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/government-plans-to-euthanize-hundreds-of-desert-tortoises-after-budget-cuts-to-refuge/

https://www.facebook.com/support.cliven.bundy

Cliven Bundy Hannity. Bundy Ranch Standoff Against The U.S. Government
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armAcbEO1PE

BREAKING: Feds prep for Waco style raid of Bundy Ranch

Thanks for the information wolfbait. This is definitely very similar to the Ruby Ridge/Waco affairs. I think the guy in the video stated it very well, the BLM is the Bureau of Land Management, they don't own the land, they are supposed to manage it for the rest of us. Groups furthering the removal of ranchers from grazing on public lands are most likely behind this whole affair, thus the reason 52 ranchers have been eliminated and Bundy is the last rancher.

In the end I hope these federal agents are prosecuted for cattle rustling. If a firefight breaks out due to the ranchers trying to protect their private property and anyone is killed I would also hope any agent killing a civilian faces murder charges. 

[bearpaw]

EXCLUSIVE! THE BUNDY DAUGHTER SPEAKS OUT ON GOVERNMENT TERRORISM AGAINST HER FAMILY!
April 9, 2014
“Sorry this is long but applicable here. By SHIREE BUNDY COX:
I have had people ask me to explain my dad’s stance on this BLM fight.
Here it is in as simple of terms as I can explain it. There is so much to it, but here it is in a nut shell.
My great grandpa bought the rights to the Bunkerville allotment back in 1887 around there. Then he sold them to my grandpa who then turned them over to my dad in 1972.
These men bought and paid for their rights to the range and also built waters, fences and roads to assure the survival of their cattle, all with their own money, not with tax dollars.
These rights to the land use is called preemptive rights.
Some where down the line, to keep the cows from over grazing, came the bureau of land management. They were supposed to assist the ranchers in the management of their ranges while the ranchers paid a yearly allotment which was to be use to pay the BLM wages and to help with repairs and improvements of the ranches.
My dad did pay his grazing fees for years to the BLM until they were no longer using his fees to help him and to improve.
Instead they began using these money’s against the ranchers.
They bought all the rest of the ranchers in the area out with their own grazing fees.
When they offered to buy my dad out for a penence he said no thanks and then fired them because they weren’t doing their job.
He quit paying the BLM but, tried giving his grazing fees to the county, which they turned down.
So my dad just went on running his ranch and making his own improvements with his own equipment and his own money, not taxes.
In essence the BLM was managing my dad out of business.
Well when buying him out didn’t work, they used the indangered species card.
You’ve already heard about the desert tortis.
Well that didn’t work either, so then began the threats and the court orders, which my dad has proven to be unlawful for all these years.
Now they’re desperate.
It’s come down to buying the brand inspector off and threatening the County Sheriff.
Everything they’re doing at this point is illegal and totally against the constitution of the United States of America.
Now you may be saying,” how sad, but what does this have to do with me?” Well, I’ll tell you.
They will get rid of Cliven Bundy, the last man standing on the Bunkerville allotment and then they will close all the roads so no one can ever go on it again.
Next, it’s Utah’s turn. Mark my words, Utah is next.
Then there’s the issue of the cattle that are at this moment being stolen. See even if dad hasn’t paid them, those cattle do belong to him.
Regardless where they are they are my fathers property. His herd has been part of that range for over a hundred years, long before the BLM even existed.
Now the Feds think they can just come in and remove them and sell them without a legal brand inspection or without my dad’s signature on it.
They think they can take them over two boarders, which is illegal, ask any trucker. Then they plan to take them to the Richfeild Auction and sell them.
All with our tax money.
They have paid off the contract cowboys and the auction owner as well as the Nevada brand inspector with our tax dollars.
See how slick they are?
Well, this is it in a nut shell. Thanks”
http://www.americasfreedomfighters.com/2014/04/09/exclusive-the-bundy-daughter-speaks-out-on-government-terrorism-against-her-family/

Laws have changed since 1887.  I hope they arrest the entire family of squatters and take their ranch and bankrupt them.  I have little patience for people who steal from the public...whether its a corrupt politician or a corrupt rancher...hang em all.

Definitely this mentality is a big part of what is wrong with America. 

Oh I completely agree...the sense of entitlement and associated entitlement programs will ruin this country.  This notion that the government (that is us taxpayers) owe you something...whether it is food stamps or free grazing lands is beyond disgusting.

Obviously neither you or I know all the details so perhaps neither of us can speak correctly about this matter. I do completely agree that entitlements are draining this country, so are the actions of agenda driven groups using government agencies via lawsuits to stop ranching, mining, logging, manufacturing, and industry in this country. 

The ranchers have said they are willing to pay the fee to the state and that they only refused to pay it to the BLM because the BLM is in turn is using the money paid for grazing to remove other ranchers and other Americans from using the land altogether. Since 52 other ranchers have been eliminated and Bundy is the last rancher it appears Bundy is telling the truth. 

[wolfbait]

BREAKING: Feds prep for Waco style raid of Bundy Ranch

BREAKING: Feds prep for Waco style raid of Bundy Ranch

Government plans to euthanize hundreds of desert tortoises after budget cuts to refuge
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/government-plans-to-euthanize-hundreds-of-desert-tortoises-after-budget-cuts-to-refuge/

https://www.facebook.com/support.cliven.bundy

Cliven Bundy Hannity. Bundy Ranch Standoff Against The U.S. Government
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=armAcbEO1PE

Thanks for the information wolfbait. This is definitely very similar to the Ruby Ridge/Waco affairs. I think the guy in the video stated it very well, the BLM is the Bureau of Land Management, they don't own the land, they are supposed to manage it for the rest of us. Groups furthering the removal of ranchers from grazing on public lands are most likely behind this whole affair, thus the reason 52 ranchers have been eliminated and Bundy is the last rancher.

In the end I hope these federal agents are prosecuted for cattle rustling. If a firefight breaks out due to the ranchers trying to protect their private property and anyone is killed I would also hope any agent killing a civilian faces murder charges. 

It's a good example of using the ESA to further the Wildland Project etc.. I'm sure the BLM and environmentalists now realize they are starting to wallow around in their own excrement. Unfortunately for them this has turned into more then they wanted the public to see. Too bad what the wolves are doing to the lower 48 doesn't get the same exposure.

Check this out: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=815242345172404&set=vb.269838976379413&type=2&theater

[idahohuntr]

The arguments made by the ranchers daughter would be akin to me arguing that because my family has hunted central Idaho since the early 1900's, when there was no fee for elk tags, no season, and no limit that I should be entitled to hunt in central Idaho whenever I want with no limit in any unit I want. The fact that the government is now regulating elk harvest does not apply to me.  IDFG is there to manage the game for sportsmen right? I'm a sportsman so they should do their job and stay out of my way when I want to shoot 3 or 4 bulls in September with a rifle...like this Bundy guy I may even offer Idaho County $2 for an elk tag if the State won't accept my payment...or whatever they cost when they first started selling them...since I'm such a nice guy.  Same logic.         

[iusmc2002]

The arguments made by the ranchers daughter would be akin to me arguing that because my family has hunted central Idaho since the early 1900's, when there was no fee for elk tags, no season, and no limit that I should be entitled to hunt in central Idaho whenever I want with no limit in any unit I want. The fact that the government is now regulating elk harvest does not apply to me.  IDFG is there to manage the game for sportsmen right? I'm a sportsman so they should do their job and stay out of my way when I want to shoot 3 or 4 bulls in September with a rifle...like this Bundy guy I may even offer Idaho County $2 for an elk tag if the State won't accept my payment...or whatever they cost when they first started selling them...since I'm such a nice guy.  Same logic.       

If your hunting in Idaho for the last hundred years or so was your livelihood, and the government decided to change things on you for arbitrary reasons, I would certainly stand beside you.  But that wasn't what this is about.  You can only twist it so many ways before even YOU realize you're losing this fight....

[AspenBud]

According to this article...

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/07/nevada-officials-blast-feds-over-treatment-cattle-rancher-cliven-bundy/

...he owes 1.1 million in unpaid grazing fees to the Fed. Most banks would foreclose over that as well.

[bearpaw]

The rancher has said he would pay. You guys want him foreclosed on (cattle stolen by BLM) because you don't like grazing, that's not right.

I think BLM should immediately be pulled out and there should be a congressional investigation of this entire matter of groups using agencies to further their agenda. If found unconstitutional or at fault by law whomever authorized millions of taxpayer dollars to be spent to remove the cattle should be fired and held financially accountable for the waste of taxpayer dollars.

If one cow is taken, whomever was involved should face cattle rustling charges.

Congress should appoint a negotiator to meet with the rancher, BLM, state, and county to work out details for a renewed grazing lease.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/government-plans-to-euthanize-hundreds-of-desert-tortoises-after-budget-cuts-to-refuge/

The result? Center administrators are planning to close the 220-acre facility in 2014 and euthanize about half of the 1400 tortoises under their protection, the AP reports. No more than 100,000 of the desert tortoises are believed to exist in the wild. Most of the tortoises there are former pets returned to their habitat once the government classified the species as threatened — one step short of endangered. And most are too feeble to be returned to the wild, the AP reports.

Congress should have an investigation into the reasons these tortoises are being euthanized rather than released when they are claimed to be endangered and the basis for stopping ranching in Nevada.

This whole affair stinks just like the spotted owl affair. After destroying the logging industry it's since been proven spotted owls live in logged areas. 

[AspenBud]

The rancher has said he would pay.

No, he has not. He has said he would pay the county, not the BLM.

I'd like to pay my wife the money I owe on my car, but the bank won't look kindly on that either.

[bearpaw]

It seems the real issue is removing all ranchers, the fee issue is only being used as a reason to remove this rancher. The real intention seems very obvious since the other 52 ranchers who tried to follow the law have already been removed.   

Seems there should be diplomatic ways to resolve this rather than creating marshall law and sending in Blackhawk helicopters and snipers. Some managers need to be replaced.

[bearpaw]

The arguments made by the ranchers daughter would be akin to me arguing that because my family has hunted central Idaho since the early 1900's, when there was no fee for elk tags, no season, and no limit that I should be entitled to hunt in central Idaho whenever I want with no limit in any unit I want. The fact that the government is now regulating elk harvest does not apply to me.  IDFG is there to manage the game for sportsmen right? I'm a sportsman so they should do their job and stay out of my way when I want to shoot 3 or 4 bulls in September with a rifle...like this Bundy guy I may even offer Idaho County $2 for an elk tag if the State won't accept my payment...or whatever they cost when they first started selling them...since I'm such a nice guy.  Same logic.       

I see quite a difference in the scenario you mention. Idaho is asking for a tag fee but they are not stopping all hunting. 

[wolfbait]

It seems the real issue is removing all ranchers, the fee issue is only being used as a reason to remove this rancher. The real intention seems very obvious since the other 52 ranchers who tried to follow the law have already been removed.   

Seems there should be diplomatic ways to resolve this rather than creating marshall law and sending in Blackhawk helicopters and snipers. Some managers need to be replaced.

BLM buys up all the ranches around him and when he refuses to sell they bring in the ESA Tortis? This really shows the fraud and corruption of the ESA doesn't it?

[AspenBud]

It seems the real issue is removing all ranchers, the fee issue is only being used as a reason to remove this rancher. The real intention seems very obvious since the other 52 ranchers who tried to follow the law have already been removed.   

Seems there should be diplomatic ways to resolve this rather than creating marshall law and sending in Blackhawk helicopters and snipers. Some managers need to be replaced.

I agree with the part of your comment that is in bold. But based on what I'm reading the guy sounds like a deadbeat who hasn't paid his bills. What did he expect would happen? That the Fed would just turn a blind eye?