The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”

[wolfbait]

So why are you whining so much about the wdfw buying ground, protecting it from development, and opening it to hunting?   Why?

WDFW buying up land has nothing to do with hunting or habitat, which you probably already know. So why do you promote the wolves over hunting? Have you read the book: The Real Wolf, by Ted B. Lyon and Will N. Graves?

How does it have nothing to do with hunting or habitat?  They buy land, protect it from development (habitat) then open it to recreation (hunting)... I think it has everything to do with hunting and habitat.  Wolves are pretty rangy animals.  Do you really think the WDFW is trying to buy up wolf habitat??  Where are you going with this argument...please just hurry up and get to your point.

Lets look at the evidence, WDFW protect the predators and add another, the Canadian wolves, while having liberal hunting seasons on their prey. WDFW are refusing so far to acknowledge the impacts on the game herds, so as the predator prey base dwindles there is More habitat. WDFW claim they are buying all this land for habitat<Habitat for what? When hunting seasons are finally cut back because of too much pressure from uncontrolled predators, and hunting falls by the way side, what then will WDFW use their purchased lands for?

[WAcoyotehunter]

ok- I think I see where you're going with this.  I guess my argument would be that more habitat protected from development and opened to hunting/recreation is a good thing, even if prey species are taking a beating (from hunters and wolves, as stated in your own argument).  The deer/elk have virtually 0% chance of making a living if their habitat is destroyed.  At least, with the habitat protected, they have some opportunity to scratch out a living. 

I do not believe that wolves are going to kill ALL the prey animals.  Wolves are somewhat efficient  predators, but they're not good enough to kill everything.  As prey populations start to decrease, wolf populations will stabilize- see the Druid pack in YS.

[idahohuntr]

Lets look at the evidence, WDFW protect the predators and add another, the Canadian wolves, while having liberal hunting seasons on their prey. WDFW are refusing so far to acknowledge the impacts on the game herds, so as the predator prey base dwindles there is More habitat. WDFW claim they are buying all this land for habitat<Habitat for what? When hunting seasons are finally cut back because of too much pressure from uncontrolled predators, and hunting falls by the way side, what then will WDFW use their purchased lands for?

Are you seriously on a hunting forum full of mostly DIY public land hunters advocating that public land is a bad thing?  That WDFW or other agencies should not use our sportsmen dollars to purchase land and open it to public hunting?  And your rationale is WDFW must have some unknown secret conspiracy up their sleeve? 

[wolfbait]

ok- I think I see where you're going with this.  I guess my argument would be that more habitat protected from development and opened to hunting/recreation is a good thing, even if prey species are taking a beating (from hunters and wolves, as stated in your own argument).  The deer/elk have virtually 0% chance of making a living if their habitat is destroyed.  At least, with the habitat protected, they have some opportunity to scratch out a living. 

I do not believe that wolves are going to kill ALL the prey animals.  Wolves are somewhat efficient  predators, but they're not good enough to kill everything.  As prey populations start to decrease, wolf populations will stabilize- see the Druid pack in YS.

Even though you say you have a signed copy of The Real Wolf, my guess is you haven't read any of it, as it would go against everything that Scott Fitkin and DoW proclaim.

So your argument is WDFW should buy up all the land they can to stop people from living on it, ranching, developing it? What will WDFW do with all of this land when there is nothing left to hunt?

You say you don't believe wolves will have a major impact on the game herds but yet, you said that when wolves kill off their prey base they will kill cattle and then move on.

Lets leave the wolves out for a minute and think about the cougars that are out of control, and the bears> How many deer per year does a cougar take? And then bring in wolves that drive them off their kills so they have to make another kill. What is the impact of bears at fawning time? And still the frauds at WDFW claim each dear season is a success for the amount of hunters that showed up>

Read your Signed Copy of The Real Wolf Wacoyote, and tell you friends at WDFW, DoW and CNW to take a flying leap into a pile of fresh wolf scat.

[WAcoyotehunter]

Easy there wolfbate.  I have read the book and know the argument the authors make.  That doesn't mean I have to believe all of it.

I am as critical of the WDFW as anyone, but I don't think there is any kind of conspiracy going on to lock up land and let all of the wildlife die. Actually, that is kind of a *censored* idea.  I'm not sure how it has taken root.

there are a lot of bears and cougars, but I don't necessarily think they are over populated. Actually, I think the deer and elk are under populated do to habitat constraints.

[wolfbait]

Easy there wolfbate.  I have read the book and know the argument the authors make.  That doesn't mean I have to believe all of it.

I am as critical of the WDFW as anyone, but I don't think there is any kind of conspiracy going on to lock up land and let all of the wildlife die. Actually, that is kind of a *censored* idea.  I'm not sure how it has taken root.

there are a lot of bears and cougars, but I don't necessarily think they are over populated. Actually, I think the deer and elk are under populated do to habitat constraints.

You Critical of WDFW? Funny I have never seen that side of you. You don't think there is plan to let the predators kill off the game herds? Why then does WDFW protect wolves above the USFWS, when after 18 years of the Canadian wolves, everyone knows what wolves do?

You say you don't think cougars are over populated? Are you referring to your area or all of WA? Because we know for a fact that WDFW had 60+ collared cougars in the Methow Valley last winter, and like last year many of the cats that were shot, were not collared.

Each year the cougar problems get worse, so tell me WAcoyote what do you consider an over population of cougars. Is it when the cougars are eating people instead of deer, and dogs etc..

I highly doubt you got past the first page on The Real Wolf, mostly because it does not fit the wolf plan of WDFW.

What will the environmentalist and WDFW do with all the land they are buying when there is not any hunting in those areas? AFter all Wacoyote, you said that when the wolves kill off their prey they will kill cows and then move on.

[JLS]

They'll build golf courses and condos to fund pay raises. 

[wolfbait]

They'll build golf courses and condos to fund pay raises. 

Thats about what we would expect from your line of thinking in the past. Hang in there Hoss, just like Hillary, it will come to you some day.

[JLS]

They'll build golf courses and condos to fund pay raises. 

Thats about what we would expect from your line of thinking in the past. Hang in there Hoss, just like Hillary, it will come to you some day.

For you to even comment on someone else's line of thinking is absolutely hilarious, not to mention you obviously don't understand sarcasm and satire. 

[WAcoyotehunter]

he doesn't understand much, he was run of this forum one other time for personal attacks and all of his conspiracy crap, hopefully it happens again. Sooner rather than later I hope

[wolfbait]

he doesn't understand much, he was run of this forum one other time for personal attacks and all of his conspiracy crap, hopefully it happens again. Sooner rather than later I hope

I think I have learned my lessons, don't call the agenda driven pro-wolfers names! Even though the pro-wolfers can call those who tell the truth any, and everything they wish. Funny how that works.

With 19 plus years of lies by the environmentalists, USFWS and now WDFW, there really isn't much that isn't known about the fraud and corruption of the Canadian wolf introduction, but just like Benghazi we have people who claim everything is just conspiracies. Yep Wacoyote you are a true winner for WDFW and the environmentalists, you cling to their original lies just like the USFWS, the problem is you were too late in 09 and now in 2014 you are way late. But you just keep beating that of more habitat, and wolves won't impact the game herds to the point of no hunting> not to many people believe you anymore, but you look good in WDFW's eyes and thats what counts eh.

[idahohuntr]

he doesn't understand much, he was run of this forum one other time for personal attacks and all of his conspiracy crap, hopefully it happens again. Sooner rather than later I hope

He does strike me as rather sad and pathetic with all the conspiracy garbage.  I think he realizes that Idaho, Montana, Wyoming have had wolves for 20+years (and only the last 4 with any hunting season on the wolves) yet elk hunting is still superb in most areas of all those states...so "crying wolf" in Washington just doesn't add up...might be some impacted areas but most of our deer and elk herds will do fine...not even a blip on the radar of hunting opportunity...especially if we compare wolves to issues like access!!!! 

[bigmacc]

WOW! How much kool-aid have you drank idahohunter? Not sticken up for wolfbait but you could be close to the edge on your wolf impact theories,i,ve been a little out of touch with the "goin-ons" here but really! You ok? ....If wolfbait is "sad and pathetic"(as you say) on one side of the coin,some could say the same of you on the flipside

[idahohuntr]

WOW! How much kool-aid have you drank idahohunter? Not sticken up for wolfbait but you could be close to the edge on your wolf impact theories,i,ve been a little out of touch with the "goin-ons" here but really! You ok? ....If wolfbait is "sad and pathetic"(as you say) on one side of the coin,some could say the same of you on the flipside

Yes bigmac, you are correct that you are out of touch if you don't see how vastly different I am from wolfbait.  While folks may disagree with some of my assessments of how wolves have and have not impacted elk in Idaho and other states, my assessments are based on my own personal observations from decades of hunting and are well matched with statements and data provided by professional wildlife managers in Idaho and elsewhere.

With wolfy...you've got black helicopter conspiracies and secret government agents that manage our wildlife as a way to inflict harm upon the general population...so NO, we are not two people on opposite sides of the coin.   

[bigmacc]

WOW! How much kool-aid have you drank idahohunter? Not sticken up for wolfbait but you could be close to the edge on your wolf impact theories,i,ve been a little out of touch with the "goin-ons" here but really! You ok? ....If wolfbait is "sad and pathetic"(as you say) on one side of the coin,some could say the same of you on the flipside

Yes bigmac, you are correct that you are out of touch if you don't see how vastly different I am from wolfbait.  While folks may disagree with some of my assessments of how wolves have and have not impacted elk in Idaho and other states, my assessments are based on my own personal observations from decades of hunting and are well matched with statements and data provided by professional wildlife managers in Idaho and elsewhere.

With wolfy...you've got black helicopter conspiracies and secret government agents that manage our wildlife as a way to inflict harm upon the general population...so NO, we are not two people on opposite sides of the coin.   

Your opinion idahohunter and i respect that.I think you misread my statement and for that i,m sorry for stating it incorrectly.What i meant was i,ve been away from THE SITE for awhile and you as well as wolfbait have some polar opposite views.I,m not out of touch with my observations or reality.Like you and your heritage with Idaho, myself and family have that same heritage here in Washington state,100 years.Ive seen a drastic decline in game  specificly in the areas we hunt and concentrate on,the decline has been noticed the most with mule deer over the last 10 years(because mulies are what we know,hunt and keep journals on),having said that, thru the years (specifically the last 5 to 7 yrs)looking back at journals,scouting trips etc i can tell you predator numbers are up,deer numbers are down in the areas we concentrate on.I am not blaming the decline on wolves specifically but without a doubt they are a part of the equation that were not a part 15 to 20 years ago.I,ve seen the ebb and flow of deer numbers and head counts after harsh winters,the effects of fires and human settlement over the years and the herd always manages to bounce back in time.The overabundance and growing predator numbers that so far are going unchecked and not seriously being addressed i fear will be a foe and circumstance that will be the one curveball the herd wont be able to hit. During 3 spring scouting trips this year we observed 5 cougars(and those 5 were during just one of the trips!)We seen numerous bear and although we did not SEE a wolf we did see sign of them.I will tell you our family has documented these scouting trips for years going back to the 1920,s.We have many bear sightings(but not as many as we,ve had in the last 10 years) and the 2 observations that stick out the most are 5 cougar observations in a 4 day period(going back 40 years we had a total of eight) and the most wolf sign we,ve seen to date! Deer numbers have continued to decline,especially over the last 10 years.I,m no rocket scientist and dont claim to be one,i know mule deer,thats it.You are on one side of the coin and wolfbait is on the other. I do agree with wolfbaits concerns of predators that are out of control because i see the impact also.From one hunter to another,with all due respect....Shoot straight and good luck in the field.