The Green Scam of “Endangered Species”

[idahohuntr]

I'm not sure why you are describing your predator sightings???  You seem to have this notion that I haven't observed predators causing declines or that I have ever suggested predators can't cause declines in deer and elk...otherwise I'm not really sure why in the heck you just described all of your family sightings  I would also add that where I live in Washington I have seen exponentially more cougars and bears than anywhere I hunted in Idaho...I also see exponentially more deer and elk too.   

If all wolfy did was raise concerns about predator numbers that would be one thing...but he advocates against public lands, against science based wildlife management, against pretty much every and any government regulation or agency, and he does it all with twisted conspiracies and made up bs.  If you and your family have hunted public lands in Washington (maybe not, maybe you are fortunate and your family has hundreds of thousands of acres of private land  ) then people with views like wolfys should terrify the hell out of you. I mean seriously, who in their right mind thinks we have too much access and land to hunt in Washington??   

[wolfbait]

I'm not sure why you are describing your predator sightings???  You seem to have this notion that I haven't observed predators causing declines or that I have ever suggested predators can't cause declines in deer and elk...otherwise I'm not really sure why in the heck you just described all of your family sightings  I would also add that where I live in Washington I have seen exponentially more cougars and bears than anywhere I hunted in Idaho...I also see exponentially more deer and elk too.   

If all wolfy did was raise concerns about predator numbers that would be one thing...but he advocates against public lands, against science based wildlife management, against pretty much every and any government regulation or agency, and he does it all with twisted conspiracies and made up bs.  If you and your family have hunted public lands in Washington (maybe not, maybe you are fortunate and your family has hundreds of thousands of acres of private land  ) then people with views like wolfys should terrify the hell out of you. I mean seriously, who in their right mind thinks we have too much access and land to hunt in Washington??   

Did you write this by yourself ID? What will WDFW and the environmentalists do with all the land they are buying once hunting is curtailed? Wildlife Corridors?  Is that a fake mad you have going on, or do you really care about hunting? Because if you cared about hunting you wouldn't try to claim the wolves won't ruin hunting in WA. and that everything will be fine. Compare Idaho to the size of WA, compare the human population and what Idaho had in game herds before the wolf introduction.  Then look at WDFW's wolf plan, and the fact that WA has no trapping, and no hound hunting for controlling cougars or bears. Then look at WDFW's efforts so far with confirming wolf packs and wolf predation on livestock.

[idahohuntr]

Well, as long as we continue to keep crackpots like you far away from any control or influence on the management of wildlife I do not see hunting being "curtailed" so I guess hunters like me will just continue to hunt deer and elk on public land.

But you keep up that sad and pathetic line about how having more public land to hunt is bad for public land hunters...it fits you well 

[wolfbait]

Well, as long as we continue to keep crackpots like you far away from any control or influence on the management of wildlife I do not see hunting being "curtailed" so I guess hunters like me will just continue to hunt deer and elk on public land.

But you keep up that sad and pathetic line about how having more public land to hunt is bad for public land hunters...it fits you well 

I have never said having public lands for hunting is bad, thats all you. My guess is you don't like the questions of why so much land is being bought up by environmentalists and WDFW, when wolves and other predators are making more habitat by killing off the game herds. The habitat argument does not fly too well anymore.

You should just pick out a name you want to call me and stick to it, you seem like you are sort of rattled when you jump around from one name to another so much. Maybe you should get out and go for a walk, work some of that anger off?

[idahohuntr]

Its real simple...you advocate against public lands.  That is not conducive to public land hunters like myself.  You try to couch public lands in a negative light by implying that government agencies will use them for some unstated, but negative reason. 

I can tell you one thing...predators in some areas  reduce the prey numbers and make hunting more challenging to some.  But when a private owner locks the gates and puts up no trespassing signs it doesn't really matter how much game is on the land now does it wolfy 

[idahohuntr]

Because if you cared about hunting you wouldn't try to claim the wolves won't ruin hunting in WA. and that everything will be fine. Compare Idaho to the size of WA, compare the human population and what Idaho had in game herds before the wolf introduction.  Then look at WDFW's wolf plan, and the fact that WA has no trapping, and no hound hunting for controlling cougars or bears. Then look at WDFW's efforts so far with confirming wolf packs and wolf predation on livestock.

oh wolfy, tell me again how there is no elk hunting in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming nearly 20 years after wolves were introduced?  Just like those states, there will be areas in Washington that may experience reductions, but there will not be some wholesale end to hunting as you like to preach about.  Given that you only hunt rattlesnakes and gophers I can see why you are so clueless.  How did you do on your rattlesnake/gopher combo hunt btw...were you able to bag some big ones??? Go get 'em little buddy.

[wolfbait]

Since the beginning of the wolf issue on W-H, the agenda driven pro-wolfers have touted more habitat is needed, my question is, why haven't they ever been for better predator control and more hunting to control game herds. Why is there such a push for more habitat? And now I wonder why they are pushing back so hard on questions concerning the use of public lands when hunting petters out?

ID do you think there will ever be public trapping or public hunting with hounds to control cougars/bears in WA? Idaho uses all three methods to control predators. Maybe you could explain to me why you think WA won't see a huge impact on its game herds with out of control predators? Wacoyote doesn't seem to think WA has a cougar problem yet either, even though some counties are showing increasing cougar problems each year. Do you think it has to do with wolves driving the cats down, or is it because there are just too many cougars. Maybe not enough game for the amount of predators WA now has.

How long will it take for WDFW to recognize the predator problems, will WA end up looking like the Lolo elk herd? Will WDFW suddenly leap to their feet with amazement and claim it's climate change?

In addition to reducing wolf predation, Fish and Game offers extra tags and longer seasons for black bears and mountain lions - other predators affecting the Middle Fork elk population.  http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,153067.0.html

Can you see the difference between IDFG and WDFW wildlife management practices ID?

[AspenBud]

Since the beginning of the wolf issue on W-H, the agenda driven pro-wolfers have touted more habitat is needed, my question is, why haven't they ever been for better predator control and more hunting to control game herds. Why is there such a push for more habitat? And now I wonder why they are pushing back so hard on questions concerning the use of public lands when hunting petters out?

ID do you think there will ever be public trapping or public hunting with hounds to control cougars/bears in WA? Idaho uses all three methods to control predators. Maybe you could explain to me why you think WA won't see a huge impact on its game herds with out of control predators? Wacoyote doesn't seem to think WA has a cougar problem yet either, even though some counties are showing increasing cougar problem each year. Do you think it has to do with wolves driving the cats down, or is it because there are just too many cougars. Maybe not enough game for the amount of predators WA now has.

How long will it take for WDFW to recognize the predator problems, will WA end up looking like the Lolo elk herd? Will WDFW suddenly leap to their feet with amazement and claim it's climate change?

Again, you can't expect WDFW to do bring back trapping and hound hunting when the people at the ballot box made it illegal. The people of Idaho never did that.

You need to depart your small world and convince the general public and not just people on hunting forums. You also need to stop with the conspiracy theories, the people who matter aren't buying it and in fact you're arguably hurting the predator management cause with it.

[wolfbait]

Since the beginning of the wolf issue on W-H, the agenda driven pro-wolfers have touted more habitat is needed, my question is, why haven't they ever been for better predator control and more hunting to control game herds. Why is there such a push for more habitat? And now I wonder why they are pushing back so hard on questions concerning the use of public lands when hunting petters out?

ID do you think there will ever be public trapping or public hunting with hounds to control cougars/bears in WA? Idaho uses all three methods to control predators. Maybe you could explain to me why you think WA won't see a huge impact on its game herds with out of control predators? Wacoyote doesn't seem to think WA has a cougar problem yet either, even though some counties are showing increasing cougar problem each year. Do you think it has to do with wolves driving the cats down, or is it because there are just too many cougars. Maybe not enough game for the amount of predators WA now has.

How long will it take for WDFW to recognize the predator problems, will WA end up looking like the Lolo elk herd? Will WDFW suddenly leap to their feet with amazement and claim it's climate change?

Again, you can't expect WDFW to do bring back trapping and hound hunting when the people at the ballot box made it illegal. The people of Idaho never did that.

You need to depart your small world and convince the general public and not just people on hunting forums. You also need to stop with the conspiracy theories, the people who matter aren't buying it and in fact you're arguably hurting the predator management cause with it.

I'm sure if WDFW really wanted to "manage" predators more efficiently they could. You say I am hurting the predator management cause, do I have that much pull with WDFW?

What conspiracy theories? I ask what will WDFW and the environmentalists do with all the land they are buying when uncontrolled predators curtail hunting. It's a question, A-bud.

[WAcoyotehunter]

I generally pull my weight as far as predator management goes.  When wolf hunting is allowed I'll be the first to go after them (I already do in ID).  I agree that WDFW has taken a really conservative approach for predator management.  The cougar management is total nonsense, and bears are probably plentiful enough for a general spring season. 

I'm still a little confused why wildlife corridors or public lands for habitat are a bad thing?  Wildlife needs habitat just like hunters need habitat, what is the conspiracy all about?

The WDFW isn't closing down the ground they purchase.  You keep talking about "ALL THE LAND THEY BUY".... how much is it?  How many acres have they purchased in the last few years?

[buckfvr]

There's tons of areas in National Forests and Wilderness areas for animals to escape human activity.....those are their corridors...........large blocks of land with that being part of the original concept.

[JLS]

All the summer range in the world is useless without unfragmented migration corridors and winter range.

[idahohuntr]

wolfy I'm not against predator management.  I am against anybody or anyone that advocates against public lands.  Just like Id, Mt, Wy...Washington- even without wolf trapping/hunting will not see some statewide decimation of deer and elk.  There have been wolves down in SE wa for years, yet there are still large deer and elk herds.  Even if wolf numbers increase there will still be lots of deer and elk hunting...in fact, down in SE where public land is very limited its not running out of game that concerns me...its running out of places to hunt that will cause the demise of hunting!   

Aspen is spot on...not you individually wolfy, but the many folks like you running around with your conspiracy theories and crazy talk is the most detrimental thing to hunting in washington.  You just don't understand the politics of washington.  If guys like aspen and wacoyote and jls were who all those west siders saw/heard when they went to the ballot box we probably would still have hound hunting/baiting in WA...sadly its always the crazies who get the press and so its wolfy type folks who those non-hunting voters see and hear before they vote   

[buckfvr]

All the summer range in the world is useless without unfragmented migration corridors and winter range.

Thats it in a nutshell......go with Agenda 21 and move everyone out of rural areas....almost all of historic winter range is full of ranches and homes.....and worse.

[JLS]

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you here, but I certainly don't see it as Agenda 21.  I don't see any push to move people out of these areas.  Rather, I see an attempt to maintain at least some of the integrity of these wintering areas. 

The tactics of WDFW are no different than those of Montana FWP, Idaho F&G, Wyoming G&F, and the RMEF.