selling permitt points

[bobcat]

I don't know. I've thought of this as well and I don't know how to end a point system once it gets started. I don't think it could be done without upsetting most of the people who have invested in it.

Like all Ponzi schemes it would not end well and probably many folks would wind up in prison when all was said and done

Actually there's at least one  state (Idaho?) where a dad can let his kid shoot an animal with dad's tag. I don't know if it has to be a dad, or just an adult mentor. Not sure, but somebody on here probably will know. I wouldn't be against something like that. But just to take points from one person and give them to another. I'd never support that.

In Idaho a parent or grandparent can transfer a controlled hunt tag that they draw to a minor child or grandchild...I have no real issue with that...but there is more than one mom/dad/grandma out there putting in for moose or sheep tags etc. who has never hunted a day in his/her life   

I was thinking the tag could be used by the child or grandchild, but I thought the two had to be together, hunting as partners. I'm not sure I like the idea of just giving the tag away like that. That's the problem with allowing stuff like that. Too much corruption, cheating, not using the system in the way it was intended.


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[link]

If you'd have looked at that point breakdown somebody posted on here a while back, you'd see that your 17 sheep or elk points are not very valuable! Boy, that was a depressing post.

[autodink13]

It would be hard to keep it "fair" willing points to someone with the squared system. Lets say grandpa has 20 points(400 names in the hat) and wills them to grandson who has 5 points(25 names in the hat).  Grandpa just gave grandson more names then grandpa accumulated"owned" 600 names. Grandson now has 625 names in the hat.

[Bob33]

"Disabled grandpa". The ability to give points away will also apply to rich jerks with spoiled brat kids who will now draw at age 10 the coveted tag you have waited your entire life to draw.
Have fun as the little snot laughs at you.

[arees]

The way I see it, there are four ways to get to shoot an animal in this state (edit: other than over the counter tags):

1) Buy a Governor's Tag.  This is a straight up rich man's game.  They hunter with the most money to spend gets the tag.

2) Buy raffle tickets.  This gives everyone who buys a ticket some chance, but let's the rich man skew the odds in his favor by buying more tickets.  He still has to worry about some other rich guy buying just as many tickets and cutting his chances in half.  There is also a slim possibility that the guy that bought one ticket wins it.

3) Apply and gather points. This gives everyone the same opportunity to improve their odds buy applying year after year.  The odds are never great, but that is just because there are more people that want to shoot the animals than there are animals.  The only way to fix this is to increase the number of animals available to hunt or decrease the number of hunters.  The rich man can buy his way into a group application, but that will only get him half the points of the person he applies with.  He can not pool people together to further improve his odds.

4) Poach the damn thing.  You have a small chance of getting caught and only modest fines if you get caught.  The only thing getting in the way is your honesty and integrity.  We don't need to discuss this any further here.

I have a few issues with some things that have been said.  Some people believe that they bought their points and should be able to sell them or give them away if they want.  That is a nice sentiment, but what you bought was what WDFW was selling.  Your points go away when you die or get drawn.  You don't have a right to anything else.  You can ask for a change in the rules, but until then it is just wishful thinking.  If I buy a life membership in RMEF, do I get to pass it down to my son?

Any change to the rules that lets people pass points on to other people just means you are giving the tags to the rich people.  You want to make the points transferable? The rich man will pay people to gather points and give them to him.  You want to make points inheritable?  The rich man can pay a bunch of old people to apply for points and name him in their will.  I just don't have any sympathy for improving the odds for rich people.

If you restrict it to only inheriting points from direct relatives, the rich man is able to make sure all his relatives have points for him to inherit.  I don't have the money for that but maybe you do.

The only thing I would consider, is letting someone pass their tag (not points) on to their child.  If a person draws a tag within the rules and without skewing the odds, they should be allowed to use that tag for their child (or maybe a make-a-wish type operation).  It does reduce the odds for the rest of us by keeping some old/infirm people in the draw longer, but is limits the ability to skew the odds with money.

In general, there are too many people wanting to hunt and too few animals available to hunt.  No preference points, bonus points or random draw system is going to fix that.  These discussions are mostly rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic.

[Karl Blanchard]

You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.

[splitshot]

  if you don't have money you don't hunt.      when someone , where do the points go?   mike w

[Curly]

I bought the points! They are mine. I should be able to do what I want with them.. 

So a guy goes off and dies for his country and his points go to waste? That is a ripoff!  There should be SPECIAL situations that points can be given to a person of your choice! After all the end goal is soneone filling a dream hunt.  But once again the value of money has ruined the whole process...

I haven't read this whole thread yet, so maybe this point has already been brought up:  You likely did not buy all your points.  When the new category system went into effect, wdfw gave points to everyone in every category.

What I think should happen is we get rid of the point system altogether.  They need to figure out a way to phase it out.  But that wouldn't fit with the money making philosophy of wdfw.

[bobcat]

You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.

Then why the discussion about points, if they don't matter?   

[Karl Blanchard]

You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.

Then why the discussion about points, if they don't matter?   

where in the above post did I say points didn't matter?  Exactly, I didn't.  Very first sentence in his post he states there are four ways to kill an animal in this state.  He left out the most simple one.  Stay focused now.

[bobcat]

I am focused. I agree with his post- I don't want want to see special permits being drawn by only those with the money to "buy" points.

But now we find out special permits aren't even necessary. Great. No need for rich people to buy points then, right?

Discussion over.


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[arees]

You forgot the first and easiest way to kill animals in this state and that's buy a tag, leave your truck and go find something to shoot.

Then why the discussion about points, if they don't matter?   

where in the above post did I say points didn't matter?  Exactly, I didn't.  Very first sentence in his post he states there are four ways to kill an animal in this state.  He left out the most simple one.  Stay focused now.

Yep, I left off over the counter tags.  Dang.

[Karl Blanchard]

I think selling points is a bad idea but being able to transfer them to a child or a child being able to give them to an elder is a great idea.  I'm am gonna go out on a limb and say most commenting on this have never been faced with this.  I would give every point I have in all 7 states I apply in to be able to give Hunter, Aaron's bull points.  Believe it or not but there are things out there that are more noble than your own satisfaction.  Its never going to happen in this state though unfortunately.

[Curly]

No way should points ever be willed/transferred or outright sold.   

Special permits are an opportunity, not an entitlement.  If you start transferring points you are just taking opportunity from someone else, in this case someone new to hunting without a "dynasty" of stockpiled points...ugh...the whole idea is horrible and becomes a slippery slope further commercializing hunting.

Agreed.   

[bobcat]

How is it "noble" to give a kid an unfair advantage over all others?


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