selling permitt points

[idahohuntr]

thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR  an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with

There is natural attrition or loss associated with points.  If you can "will" them, it will reduce/eliminate that attrition and continue to increase point creep (go see Bob33's post on the point creep issue in WA).  This will continue to further erode the odds of new and beginning hunters.   

Its great folks want to help youth and seniors.  Nobody is arguing those of us who are able to should not help them.  I take new kids hunting as often as my schedule allows.  Most of them do not have a parent or family member that has much hunting experience.  So no, I do not agree that simply because a kid comes from a long line of hunters he should have a huge advantage over the kid whose parent(s) also died tragically but did not come from a hunting family.  Furthermore, points are an opportunity to increase your chance of drawing a tag...THEY ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT TO A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT! If you don't like the fact that you can not transfer or will them, then don't buy them...seems pretty simple.

[bobcat]

Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over. 

[kentrek]

My  :

The idea of passing on points may be "noble", but it skews odds even farther in what is already an overly complicated point system.

It would be easy to apply rules that dont skew the odds further, it just shifts whose name is behind the ticket/tag

[kentrek]

Idaho hunter

Are you saying its unfair for kids to be born in a hunting dedicated family ? That their opportunity should be curved to let the "other" kids catch up ?? 

[huntnphool]

I'd bet the bleeding heart liberals of King, Pierce and Snohomish counties would be all over this if it made a ballot.   Their entitlement mentality would love to see kids get their parents/grandparents points.

[vandeman17]

What if the "willed" points were only eligible to be used for buck or bull tags and not quality buck, quality bull or OIL? Would that make any difference. I see both sides of the argument and think this could alleviate a few of the downsides. The biggest issue would be separating them so maybe they would be a different kind of point, like an inherited point. So say a guy has 5 points and his gramps leaves him 15. He could still apply for a quality or OIL permit but only using his 5 points and the 15 points would be eligible for buck, bull or doe tags... 

[jackmaster]

thats why selling points shouldn't be allowed but giving your points to a family member OR  an old timer with only a few hunts left should be allowed, it doesn't skew crappy, because the person who gave the points would no longer have points to skew the system with

There is natural attrition or loss associated with points.  If you can "will" them, it will reduce/eliminate that attrition and continue to increase point creep (go see Bob33's post on the point creep issue in WA).  This will continue to further erode the odds of new and beginning hunters.   

Its great folks want to help youth and seniors.  Nobody is arguing those of us who are able to should not help them.  I take new kids hunting as often as my schedule allows.  Most of them do not have a parent or family member that has much hunting experience.  So no, I do not agree that simply because a kid comes from a long line of hunters he should have a huge advantage over the kid whose parent(s) also died tragically but did not come from a hunting family.  Furthermore, points are an opportunity to increase your chance of drawing a tag...THEY ARE NOT AN ENTITLEMENT TO A ONCE IN A LIFETIME HUNT! If you don't like the fact that you can not transfer or will them, then don't buy them...seems pretty simple.

no where in any of my posts did I say they were an entitlement, did i? And the argument of if you dont like it then dont buy it crap, well that dont fly either. Did i ever say I was pissed at the current system? Nope. Did i say its b.s that we cant give them to are kids or seniors? Nope. I do recall however saying it should be allowed, it will suck to go my whole life without drawing A special permit and then DIE, all that money and noone in my family can bennefit, cant even pass the points on to my kids or grand kids.... kinda sucks....

[bobcat]

Jackmaster, like idahohuntr said, if that's the way you feel about it, then maybe you shouldn't be "wasting"your money on applying for special permits.


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[Karl Blanchard]

Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over. 

what are you 9?  Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it? 

[jackmaster]

Jackmaster, like idahohuntr said, if that's the way you feel about it, then maybe you shouldn't be "wasting"your money on applying for special permits.


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oh hell I am gonna WAIST even more money on it now just to skew the odds a little more, mind telling me what units you put in for bobcat?

[trophyhunt]

I do hate the draw system, don't really have a good answer for it either.  I've always thought a person should be able to choose how many points he wants to put on his permit hunt.  Example, I have 19 points in quality elk, I should be able to say I want 8 to go towards watershed as 1 choice and 11 to go towards Dayton.  The flexibility to split them up would be nice.

[bobcat]

Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over. 

what are you 9?  Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it?

No, I'm not nine. But I sure wish I could be again! No more sore back, knees, hips, shoulders, etc.     

[Bob33]

Idahohuntr, again, well stated! NOW, the fat lady has sung, and this discussion is over. 

what are you 9?  Because you have one point of view then that means everyone else's opinion doesn't matter and we shouldn't discuss it?

No, I'm not nine. But I sure wish I could be again! No more sore back, knees, hips, shoulders, etc.     

Bobcat, go for it! And ask your relatives to will you those points you deserve now that you're nine.

[Bullkllr]

My  :

The idea of passing on points may be "noble", but it skews odds even farther in what is already an overly complicated point system.

It would be easy to apply rules that dont skew the odds further, it just shifts whose name is behind the ticket/tag

That is a different issue; I have no problem with transferring a drawn tag say to an immediate family member, etc.- but you have to admit that opens a pandora's box of under the table selling, etc.

So if I'm not mistaken, this thread has evolved to cover three different scenarios:

1. Selling points: do we really want to go there...?

2. Transferring points: seems like a reasonable idea. I just don't like the idea of claiming we're supporting youth opportunities, when if I grant my grandson points it creates an unfair advantage over all the other youth not so privileged.

3. Transferring tags drawn- I'd be all for this if someone could show me a plan that prevents misuse.   

[idahohuntr]

Idaho hunter
Are you saying its unfair for kids to be born in a hunting dedicated family ? That their opportunity should be curved to let the "other" kids catch up ??

No.  I am saying the system the way it is (no "inheriting" points) does not need changed.  Everybody is responsible for building their own points and we don't skew the system for one group of kids at the expense of a different group of kids.