How do we get back Sept 8-21 season?

[Snapshot]

Apples to oranges.  We got screwed and I won't stop until we return to our 2006-2008 seasons.


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[huntnphool]

I didnt give them the shaft. Mod compounds and muzzies today have no compare with what the original intent of the primitive season was all about. These weapons have outpaced their perceived category.

True, the weapons have evolved well beyond what they were when the separate seasons were first created. Fifteen years ago I wouldn't have said this...but I think I might live long enough to see "Primitive Weapons Only" at some level; maybe units only, or maybe seasons...time will tell.

My Mathews bow flings arrows at 300 fps and is more than 15 years old. Todays bows don't make the difference to justify a "primitive weapon" "too much technology", "end of hunting" argument for a additional "allocation", based on their "evolution"

 Just as your Luminok scare tactics and fear mongering comments didn't see a resulting slaughter of animals with their use last year.

 You want longer seasons or your own personal season, fine, I can understand that. Lets not make up another bunch of BS excuses of what you "think" the original intention of seperate seasons and technologies role in those seasons was "meant" to play.

[Snapshot]

When the bowhunters first won separate seasons a 30 yard shot with a bow was considered about as difficult as a 300 yard rifle shot; people who had shot both weapons said a guy could shoot ten times farther with a rifle and that was widely accepted as a good generality. Today we have some guy on YouTube popping balloons with a compound from 300 yards. It is very evident that technology has removed from bowhunting the challenge that it presented when it was first granted the opportunity for longer seasons. Those who argue that it shouldn’t have longer seasons only know compound hunting. And compound hunting is entirely different…from a different planet, so to speak…from what bowhunting seasons were created for; they were created to give outdoorsmen who were willing to accept the greater challenge more time afield, and were justified by the inherent difficulty of shooting the weapon. As the difficulty decreases with technological advances (and 300 yard balloon shots demonstrated) it becomes harder and harder to justify the longer seasons. And so…primitive seasons for primitive weapons will soon again be an argument that might be worth discussing.
But this thread is about how to get the elk seasons back to September 8-21. Can you keep those thoughts flowing? This summer the WDFW will start fleshing out the recommendations for the 2015-17 package and we need to have our ducks lined up by the Fall of this year.

[hogslayer]

Not sure if someone already said this but I talked to some game wardens and they said that next year is going to be the 8-21.  It is going to follow the day after Labor Day trend.  So everyone chill.  It is going to be alright.

[washelkhunter]

I didnt give them the shaft. Mod compounds and muzzies today have no compare with what the original intent of the primitive season was all about. These weapons have outpaced their perceived category.

True, the weapons have evolved well beyond what they were when the separate seasons were first created. Fifteen years ago I wouldn't have said this...but I think I might live long enough to see "Primitive Weapons Only" at some level; maybe units only, or maybe seasons...time will tell.

My Mathews bow flings arrows at 300 fps and is more than 15 years old. Todays bows don't make the difference to justify a "primitive weapon" "too much technology", "end of hunting" argument for a additional "allocation", based on their "evolution"

 Just as your Luminok scare tactics and fear mongering comments didn't see a resulting slaughter of animals with their use last year.

 You want longer seasons or your own personal season, fine, I can understand that. Lets not make up another bunch of BS excuses of what you "think" the original intention of seperate seasons and technologies role in those seasons was "meant" to play.

Well I was never against luminox nor did I ever comment negatively about them. I actually think they're a great asset for the modern archer. Sure I'd like to have a longer season, who would'nt? My premise is based in the reality that the available technology has advanced far beyond what can even be remotely considered primitive. Lets face it the compounds of today are anything but. You might be lucky to have wood scales on the grip but thats it; everything else is engineered composites and exotic metals. You modern myopic archers are the ones BSing yourselves. My desire to get back to a primitive weapons only season is valid and I think would be very desirable for many. Longbows, wood recurves and sidelock muzzies all in one 3 week season. I'm simply reacting to the realities today. Compound bow shots at ballons at 300 yards and making them. Also many here brag on shooting and killing animals at 80-100 yards, my muzzy is really only effective out 100 yds.

[huntnphool]

But this thread is about how to get the elk seasons back to September 8-21. Can you keep those thoughts flowing?

Absolutely, lets keep it real though and leave the fear mongering out of it.

Incidentally, I see nothing wrong with the same season setting that they came up with 8 years ago. Again, archers have nothing to whine about when it comes to seasons compared to the other user groups, and thats coming from someone that purchases a archery tag every year.

[Gamblin Guy]

phool,

I don't post much and generally don't disagree much with what you post but you have to consider that early archery elk/deer is the only season that has to deal with the last major camping weekend of the year either during or just prior to the opener.  I've sat in camp waiting for elk season to open on the Tuesday after, and even back when they opened us on the 1st and seen all kinds of stuff that the muzzy guys and the modern guys don't have to put up with. 

I agree that the muzzy and rifle seasons suck too but that's because in this state its all about $$$.

Bottom line, as least as far as I can tell, is that the WDFW doesn't care about anything but generating revenue and that is the number one priority.  They couldnt care less about the individual user groups, it's all about how much money they can make by selling special permits or whatever.

I would venture to guess that archery wont open on the 8th in 2015 as has been stated, just wait and see...they will come up with some excuse for opening archery elk earlier and the stick flingers will get screwed again. 

I've hunted archery for elk in this state since 1987 and every year it gets harder and harder for me to buy a license and tag. 

[huntnphool]

phool,

I don't post much and generally don't disagree much with what you post but you have to consider that early archery elk/deer is the only season that has to deal with the last major camping weekend of the year either during or just prior to the opener.  I've sat in camp waiting for elk season to open on the Tuesday after, and even back when they opened us on the 1st and seen all kinds of stuff that the muzzy guys and the modern guys don't have to put up with. 

I agree that the muzzy and rifle seasons suck too but that's because in this state its all about $$$.

Bottom line, as least as far as I can tell, is that the WDFW doesn't care about anything but generating revenue and that is the number one priority.  They couldnt care less about the individual user groups, it's all about how much money they can make by selling special permits or whatever.

I would venture to guess that archery wont open on the 8th in 2015 as has been stated, just wait and see...they will come up with some excuse for opening archery elk earlier and the stick flingers will get screwed again. 

I've hunted archery for elk in this state since 1987 and every year it gets harder and harder for me to buy a license and tag.

 Not sure where we disagree, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

[bobcat]

I'll bet money that elk season will open no earlier than the 8th in 2015. It's already been decided that they don't want archery elk season to be open during Labor Day weekend, so I sure don't see that changing.

[huntnphool]

I'll bet money that elk season will open no earlier than the 8th in 2015. It's already been decided that they don't want archery elk season to be open during Labor Day weekend, so I sure don't see that changing.

I agree, the real question is will it run through the 21st?

 I could see WDFW playing games and start the season on the 5th and end it on the 20th, then play up the fact that they increased the number of days in the field for us.

[bobcat]

No, I doubt it. That would be a Monday, and isn't that the day the modern firearm permit hunts would be scheduled to start? The problem is, there just aren't enough days in a month to have all the long seasons that everyone wants. We could do like Oregon does, I suppose, and have a month long early archery season, and no muzzleloader season. 


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[hughjorgan]

From what I know, there has been an increase archers in the past five years and a decrease in the number of big bulls we are taking. If the state is going to stick with this resource allocation, they are going to have to adjust the season timing to make sure equitable harvest of big bulls is maintained for the archery user group. Hopefully that gets us back to sept. 8-21 or close to it.

[elk247]

Just make it start on the second Saturday of Sept each year and run for 14 days.  This means it would end on a Friday and would not interfere with the next user group that would/could start on Saturday.  Still a floating start date, but much better dates to hunt each year.

ET

I would take this! But it will be difficult to sneak past the state biologists.  The best option seems to be a fixed date. A 13-14 day season starting on the 8-9th seems more realistic.  Also gives bulls a couple weeks to get 'er done before the smoke poles start. This still puts us in the woods into the 3rd week of September.

[huntnphool]

Just make it start on the second Saturday of Sept each year and run for 14 days.  This means it would end on a Friday and would not interfere with the next user group that would/could start on Saturday.  Still a floating start date, but much better dates to hunt each year.

ET

I would take this! But it will be difficult to sneak past the state biologists. The best option seems to be a fixed date. A 13-14 day season starting on the 8-9th seems more realistic.

Of course you would take that, so would every other archery guy.

 You guys just don't get it, and this is not directed solely at you 247, but at everyone that's making this request. When is the best time for archers to be in the woods, early September or late September? Although someone will argue for the sake of arguing, most here will agree it's later. Don't you guys think WDFW know this? Do you really think you can "sneak past" them?

 They will do whatever they can to back the start time up, while at the same time back the end time up as well, the latter being the highest priority to them. It will either come with "balance" or to protect the dept. from outrage by adding additional days on the front end, or they will simply remove some of those ending days and shorten the season, precedent has already been set.

[et1702]

Why are we worried about sneaking anything past a state biologist?  There is no science that says a later start date or longer season will increase the success rate or harvest rate...NONE.  Look at other states that have a month long season.  On average, success rates are the same as they are here!

The dates were changed because another user group complained about some undocumented and/or percieved advantage an archer might have over their user group.  Not true, no science to back it up!  The only way harvest would go up is if there were more archers.  If there were more archers, there would be less ML or less rifle hunters.  Therefore, harvest overall would still be about the same. 

There is no credible science behnd the assumption that moving the dates later in the month will cause anything different to happen. 

ET