RAMPANT USE OF PESTICIDES

[fish vacuum]

I can't believe nobody has brought this up. If timber dollars are swaying politicians and state agencies on an environmental issue, there is one group that can get results.
They have the $$$ to fight big timber.
They have a reputation among the public for protecting natural resources.
They have our politicians' attention when they want it.
They have $$$ for their own wildlife research.

Get some tribes involved.

[singleshot12]

  Exactly what I was thinking! The tribes may be our only hope

[snowpack]

I can't believe nobody has brought this up. If timber dollars are swaying politicians and state agencies on an environmental issue, there is one group that can get results.
They have the $$$ to fight big timber.
They have a reputation among the public for protecting natural resources.
They have our politicians' attention when they want it.
They have $$$ for their own wildlife research.

Get some tribes involved.

Tribes log their lands too.

[bobcat]

That's a good idea about the tribes. It does appear that they already are involved. I posted this in another thread but I'll post it here again. I will bold the tribal people.

Elk Hoof Disease Public Working Group (EHDPWG) Members

Brian Anderson, Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation

Dr. Tom Besser, Washington State University

Dave Carlson, Safari Club International, WA State Chapters

Carol Chandler, U.S. Forest Service

Wayne Clifford, Washington Department of Health

Mick Cope, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

Daniel Cothren, Wahkiakum County Commissioner

Curt Gavigan, Senate Natural Resources

Bob Johnson, Department of Natural Resources

Dr. Sandra Jonker, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

Chris Madsen, NW Indian Fisheries Commission

Dr. Kristin Mansfield, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

James Misner, Cowlitz County Commissioner

Barbara Moeller, Puyallup Tribe

Dr. Jerry Nelson, Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife

Mike Rochelle, Weyerhaeuser Company

Bob Schlecht, SW Land Access Coalition

Mark Smith, Local Resident/Business Owner

Axel Swanson, Clark County Senior Policy Lead

Dr. Ron Wohrle, Washington Department of Health

[Landowner]

No hoof rot in elk in E. WA.  And there are timber companies over here who manage their tree stands with chemicals.

Cattle, goats and sheep get hoof rot.  Cause?   Primarily bacteria common to the environment.

Not suggesting chemicals are issue free. People and bad chemicals usually don't mix too well. But to suggest chemicals used in managing timber stands is a cause of hoof rot in elk is a long ways from being supported by fact.   Let's see the science. 

[JLS]

No hoof rot in elk in E. WA.  And there are timber companies over here who manage their tree stands with chemicals.

Cattle, goats and sheep get hoof rot.  Cause?   Primarily bacteria common to the environment.

Not suggesting chemicals are issue free. People and bad chemicals usually don't mix too well. But to suggest chemicals used in managing timber stands is a cause of hoof rot in elk is a long ways from being supported by fact.   Let's see the science.

I've made this same statement several times. 

Simply testing for the presence of these chemicals would prove nothing.  Of course they are likely to be present in trace amounts in the hooves.  Does that mean anything?  Who the heck knows.

If, as some of these folks want, true research is to be done as to whether these chemical/adjuvant combinations cause or contribute to hoof rot, then it will take much more than sampling the animals for residues.  It will take a controlled study environment with groups  of elk exposed to the chemical/adjuvant combo in the commonly used application level.  Control groups would also be needed, and groups should also be exposed to the treponeme bacteria with and without exposure to chemical.

It could certainly be done, but it would be a lengthy and costly process.  I doubt anyone is going to go to the effort on a hunch, when there are many other private timberlands in the PNW that also use chemicals and don't show any signs of hoof rot.

[bbarnes]

LANDOWNER have you read any of the previous post?We believe it's the gallons per acres and mixtures of chemicals there spaying,2 1/2 times more chemicals in SW WASHINGTON then any other place in the state.These animals are undernourished and sick.

[bbarnes]

The biggest problem with this hoof rot issue is they have no FACTS.They thought it was this thought is was that again no FACTS.The FACTS are they haven't looked at the obvious,which is timber practices have changed,and these company's don't give a *censored* about our wild life.There consumed with making millions for some stock holder whose never been here,and just wants a new yacht or a nicer vacation.Not to mention putting rural community's in a health and safety risk,spaying the forest down with atrazine,and lords knows what else.

[snowpack]

I'd like to first understand why this potential cause has not been considered.

I do not believe that RMEF would deliberately try to ignore a potential cause. I have a hard believing WDFW would either.

Let's hear it, WDFW: why not?

From this article, RMEF is contributing something to the hoof rot study.  Doesn't go into detail about it though.
http://www.sequimgazette.com/news/256620231.html

[bbarnes]

Ya for a 30 thousand dollar pamphlet that's full of mistrusts about hoof rot elk.Just like the consumption of fish with the toxins in them,this elk issue is also a human rights issue.We need to know if we're consuming wild game with,toxins in there blood stream.

[Landowner]

LANDOWNER have you read any of the previous post?We believe it's the gallons per acres and mixtures of chemicals there spaying,2 1/2 times more chemicals in SW WASHINGTON then any other place in the state.These animals are undernourished and sick.

Sure, I read it.  The WA St. Dept. of Agriculture can investigate any pesticide/herbicide related complaint,   It can get the contents of the chemical mix you reference.  What I suspect the agency would find and conclude is that there is no misuse of any chemical alone or in combination with others.  Certified applicators know the consequences of misusing and misapplying any such chemicals. The timber companies undoubtedly know this as well.         

Atrazine  is regulated by the WA St. Dept. of Agriculture.  WAC 16-228-1231    It is a state restricted use pesticide and can only be distributed  by licensed pesticide dealers to certified applicators or to their duly authorized agents.  The certified applicator must have a valid certification, license or permit to use or purchase the kind and quantity of such pesticide sold or delivered.  http://agr.wa.gov/pestfert/pesticides/docs/GenRulesWFrms.doc

[bbarnes]

And who oversees this do they have inspectors,from the private timber farms?They sure didn't at triangle lake,and I'm sure the same things going on here as we'll NO OVERSIGHT.The trees have grown for thousands of years just fine,without all the chemicals and a lot better quality of tree.The facts and research are there as far as what effects it has,on humans and fish and wildlife.

[bbarnes]

Here are the reasons for tax breaks on timberland, directly from the law...
.RCW 84.33.010

   the legislature hereby finds that:

     (1) The public welfare requires that this state's system for taxation of timber and forest lands be modernized to assure the citizens of this state and its future generations the advantages to be derived from the continuous production of timber and forest products from the significant area of privately owned forests in this state. It is this state's policy to encourage forestry and restocking and reforesting of such forests so that present and future generations will enjoy the benefits which forest areas provide in enhancing water supply, in minimizing soil erosion, storm and flood damage to persons or property, in providing a habitat for wild game, in providing scenic and recreational spaces, in maintaining land areas whose forests contribute to the natural ecological equilibrium, and in providing employment and profits to its citizens and raw materials for products needed by everyone.DO YOU READ THE PART ABOUT HABITAT FOR WILD GAME.

[Landowner]

And who oversees this do they have inspectors,from the private timber farms?They sure didn't at triangle lake,and I'm sure the same things going on here as we'll NO OVERSIGHT.The trees have grown for thousands of years just fine,without all the chemicals and a lot better quality of tree.The facts and research are there as far as what effects it has,on humans and fish and wildlife.

Call the Department and make a complaint about any chemical application.  Their inspectors will be on it right away.     Just ask any crop duster. 

I am not trying to be disrespectful to you, but I am seeing some hype in your allegations. 

[BrushChimp]

And who oversees this do they have inspectors,from the private timber farms?They sure didn't at triangle lake,and I'm sure the same things going on here as we'll NO OVERSIGHT.The trees have grown for thousands of years just fine,without all the chemicals and a lot better quality of tree.The facts and research are there as far as what effects it has,on humans and fish and wildlife.

Call the Department and make a complaint about any chemical application.  Their inspectors will be on it right away.     Just ask any crop duster. 

I am not trying to be disrespectful to you, but I am seeing some hype in your allegations. 

Ya think?