RAMPANT USE OF PESTICIDES

[farmin4u_98948]

And who oversees this do they have inspectors,from the private timber farms?They sure didn't at triangle lake,and I'm sure the same things going on here as we'll NO OVERSIGHT.The trees have grown for thousands of years just fine,without all the chemicals and a lot better quality of tree.The facts and research are there as far as what effects it has,on humans and fish and wildlife.

Call the Department and make a complaint about any chemical application.  Their inspectors will be on it right away.     Just ask any crop duster. 

I am not trying to be disrespectful to you, but I am seeing some hype in your allegations.

WOW!!!! There is only one side of the story here. What is the other side. You can use data to say and prove anything you want to if your mind is already made up before you start. I
 have used atrizine for years. Its a safe and very effective chemical. Back before G P S we had a crop duster plane that had a person marking each pass so that no areas were missed. Why cant we eat peanuts or even have them on a plane. Why do some people DIE from a bee sting. Different people have different reactions. It dosen,t make peanuts or bees bad. How long do you sit in traffic. How about that exhaust. What about the spruce bud worm and how it destroyed our forests. . . . You have some of the most toxic chemicals under your sink. The point is when used correctly chemicals are safe. I could go on and on but you get the point. Just because you dont like it dosen.t make it wrong. 

[farmin4u_98948]

OK... Im on my soap box. I have lost access to some very safe and effective chemicals over the years just because the odor was to strong.. Just because it smells bad dosen't mean its dangerous. Do you smoke. Its KNOWN to cause cancer. Do you drink. Its KNOWN to cause liver failure. What do you do every day that can potentially take years off of your life. The chemical industry is very very heavily regulated. Timber companies cant just throw money to bend the rules just as farmer cannot. OK.. You know which side of the fence I am on.
Im living and farm on a 4 th generation farm. My father is in great health and is 78. His father passed away at 90. His father passed away at 86. Im 53. Im planning on using chemicals as labeled and living a long long time..... Thank you for reading my rant...
                     Farmin4u98948

[Mudman]

This is all legit until 40 years later we find out what chemicals can do to life.  How many years was smoking considered safe before we labeled it bad?  Thats the point.  Some are bad and some are ok but where do you draw the line?  When people get sick, water is poisoned and animals die!  I know many who lived long and smoked.  Doesnt make it safe.

[Landowner]

Im planning on using chemicals as labeled and living a long long time..... Thank you for reading my rant...                      Farmin4u98948

Agreed.  Without the herbicides we have available, the world would have a lot less food available. 

Every fellow farmer I know understands real clear that you better stay on label or you will have major problems and consequences to deal with.  But more important, every one of them wants to stay on label because it is the right thing to do. 

[hughjorgan]

The chemicals allowed to be sprayed according to the labels now a days are far less nasty than what has been used in the past. The WSDA does a good job of educating and regulating the use of pesticides in the state.

[Mudman]

   And in the future the same argument will be made as we learn more and may discover some used today were bad mojo.  Just the way it works.  Progress.  Must keep an open mind on these chemicals and error in name of safety.  Funny thing is we do the same in human medicine.

[pianoman9701]

The chemicals allowed to be sprayed according to the labels now a days are far less nasty than what has been used in the past. The WSDA does a good job of educating and regulating the use of pesticides in the state.

On what actual knowledge do you base that statement?

[BrushChimp]

The chemicals allowed to be sprayed according to the labels now a days are far less nasty than what has been used in the past. The WSDA does a good job of educating and regulating the use of pesticides in the state.

On what actual knowledge do you base that statement?

2,4, 5-T anyone? TCDD? If tested today most folks would test positive for Atrazine and 2, 4-D.

And ditto from farmer on the agenda. If someone's mind is already made up, science goes out the window. Just like those crazies down at Triangle Lake some keep citing (and losing credibility by doing so)... "I saw that helicopter flying over on that hillside. Now I'M SICK!!"

I was pretty spooked by pesticides before I, to a small degree, became educated on them. Now, I still don't like them, but don't run around crying wolf.

[farmin4u_98948]

The chemicals allowed to be sprayed according to the labels now a days are far less nasty than what has been used in the past. The WSDA does a good job of educating and regulating the use of pesticides in the state.

On what actual knowledge do you base that statement?



I have to have continued education every year to keep my licenses. Chemical companies have to go through years of testing and reviews to get their products labeled for not the whole country but on a state by state basis. And on a crop by crop basis. Just as mentioned before on medicines. You have reports of things that are legal in other countries but not approved by the F D A for consumption in the US. We hear of whats coming for us in the future after years of testing and what is being lost. Yes some bad bad stuff was used and rightly so removed from the market. Fact and emotion rarely are on the same path.

[bbarnes]

Lets just assume for a second all of our VIETNAM VETERANS, were just crying wolf.We know now that wasn't the case.Again when our own GOVERNMENT told them the things sprayed were safe there.Since then we seen major cancer,mental illness,hair loss,Parkinson's,etc,etc.I have also seen first hand,the birth effects caused by the chemicals being sprayed areson these people in foreign country's.Some caused by chemicals sprayed in war time,some from our pharmaceutical company's using these people as guinea pigs.So doesn't seem strange that the WDFW hasn't done any testing for the chemicals?Also doesn't it seem strange that since 06,we have had ELK DYING on one timber company's property.In addition doesn't seem strange that the WDFW said it was a low copper and selenium.Only to find out the ELK in non spayed and effected areas,were the same levels as effected areas.In closing doesn't it seem strange that nothing's been found,to be the cause.One things for sure they did there best to totally eliminate,all the ELK IN SW WASHINGTON since then.Why would they increase tags only in one area,overpopulation?Defend chemicals use all you want,
anyone that hunts these effected areas knows you don't even hear a bird chip.If this is how you want forest lands managed great,if not make some phone calls.

[BrushChimp]

Lets just assume for a second all of our VIETNAM VETERANS, were just crying wolf.We know now that wasn't the case.Again when our own GOVERNMENT told them the things sprayed were safe there.Since then we seen major cancer,mental illness,hair loss,Parkinson's,etc,etc.I have also seen first hand,the birth effects caused by the chemicals being sprayed areson these people in foreign country's.Some caused by chemicals sprayed in war time,some from our pharmaceutical company's using these people as guinea pigs.So doesn't seem strange that the WDFW hasn't done any testing for the chemicals?Also doesn't it seem strange that since 06,we have had ELK DYING on one timber company's property.In addition doesn't seem strange that the WDFW said it was a low copper and selenium.Only to find out the ELK in non spayed and effected areas,were the same levels as effected areas.In closing doesn't it seem strange that nothing's been found,to be the cause.One things for sure they did there best to totally eliminate,all the ELK IN SW WASHINGTON since then.Why would they increase tags only in one area,overpopulation?Defend chemicals use all you want,
anyone that hunts these effected areas knows you don't even hear a bird chip.If this is how you want forest lands managed great,if not make some phone calls.

Vietnam vets? ---> Already mentioned 2, 4, 5-T and the TCDD in it. Now BANNED.

One timber company's property since '06? ---> Hoof rot has been seen around SW WA since at least the mid-90's. They are the majority landowner near the theoretical origination site for hoof rot. Correlation, not causation. (Also, the largest private landowner in the world.)

Copper/Selenium? ---> Elk had the same levels as other elk clear across the state.

No cause found? ---> Actually, the state says they believe the cause to be the treponema bacteria and are doing further testing from diversified facilities across the world to see if treponema continues to be found.

Increased permits? ---> The Mt. St. Helens elk herd (if that is the elk you're referring) was in drastic decline after a huge population increase following the 1980 eruption. It seems quite obvious (at least to me) that the increase in early seral habitat created by the eruption led to elk population likely never before seen in that area since the last eruption, i.e. thousands of years. The canopy closure in the 30+ year old stands now provide little to no forage for elk. Thus, the die off during a hard winter several years ago. I feel lucky to have had the opportunity to witness such high elk populations (and they are still high considering).

Finally, there has been no single reason elk populations are as high as they are right now outside of industrialized forestry. Huge increase in early seral habitat. Though much of it is devoid of elk food for the first few years. I will not deny that. Check the record books, journals etc.. How many elk were here 100+ years ago? Even 100 years ago. There wasn't squat.

[hughjorgan]

The chemicals allowed to be sprayed according to the labels now a days are far less nasty than what has been used in the past. The WSDA does a good job of educating and regulating the use of pesticides in the state.

On what actual knowledge do you base that statement?

Like Farmin4u you mentioned as a licensed applicator we have to continue our education by taking so many credits, if you would have taken the time to go to the WSDA website I linked to in my post a while back you can see the licensing requirements and find a wealth of other information. These classes are tought by professionals in the industry and by highly educated employees from the WSU and it is done all over the state.

[Landowner]

The WSDA tolerates no BS in chemical applications and violations of label restrictions. 

Farmers don't spend the winter setting around the house in their bunny slippers.  Part of their time is spent attending the training needed to keep their applicator's credentials up to date.  Same goes with those helicopter sprayers who fly the timber lands. 

[pianoman9701]

The chemicals allowed to be sprayed according to the labels now a days are far less nasty than what has been used in the past. The WSDA does a good job of educating and regulating the use of pesticides in the state.

On what actual knowledge do you base that statement?

Like Farmin4u you mentioned as a licensed applicator we have to continue our education by taking so many credits, if you would have taken the time to go to the WSDA website I linked to in my post a while back you can see the licensing requirements and find a wealth of other information. These classes are tought by professionals in the industry and by highly educated employees from the WSU and it is done all over the state.

I don't dispute your knowledge of the training you have to go through to do your job. What I dispute is the safety of Atrazine. We know it's an immunotoxin. We know that in water supplies it causes birth defects, breast cancer and cervical cancer in humans. We know from research that Bruce has done that in the area where hoof rot is being found that 2.5 times the normal application of the chemical is being used on the clear cuts. And we know that after spraying, it's unhealthy for humans to enter an area for a given period of time. We can assume therefore that's it's also unhealthy for other animals, especially when they're there to feed.

I have no problem with people making their living spraying chemicals when they're as educated and current in their field as you obviously are. I have a problem with hyper-application of those chemicals and the fact that in spite of compelling evidence, our government still allows the use of Atrazine. I also mourn the fact that the air quality and global warming Nazis have made it necessary for the timber companies to poison the forests instead of burning the slash, reintroducing beneficial carbon back into the environment and creating a healthier environment and forage for our wildlife.

[pianoman9701]

The WSDA tolerates no BS in chemical applications and violations of label restrictions. 

Farmers don't spend the winter setting around the house in their bunny slippers.  Part of their time is spent attending the training needed to keep their applicator's credentials up to date.  Same goes with those helicopter sprayers who fly the timber lands.

The difference between farmers and timber applications with respect to Atrazine is great. Farmers move their livestock when the fields will be sprayed and stay out of those fields until it's safe to return. We have no such safety net for forest wildlife. Just because your training and credentials are up to date doesn't mean that animals which feed on vegetation recently sprayed, or even while it's being sprayed, aren't going to be affected. I know you guys aren't loading this stuff without precautions against poisoning yourselves. Why do you take those precautions if it's perfectly safe?

I get you're just making a living and that what you're spraying is approved. This isn't about the people applying the chemical. This is about the effect of the chemical on wildlife.