6.5 badger project teaser

[yorketransport]

So, the 26 Nosler is getting a lot of hype over pushing a 129gr Accubond to 3400 fps. What if you could hit that with a 6.5mm 160 gr VLD? How about if you could hit 3500 fps or possibly higher? Are you intrigued?



That's a 95% formed 6.5 Badger next to a 300 WSM. Biggerhammer designed the reamer, I just sacrificed a barrel to get the project started. What we have here is the ultimate barrel burner! Yes it's over bore, excessive, inefficient, and almost impractical. But it's going to be smoking fast! How about using less than 5 MIL of elevation to get to 1000 yards with a 100 yard zero?

I'll keep updating this as the load development progresses. This should be fun!

[grundy53]

Tag

sent from my typewriter

[Biggerhammer]

It frikn rocks. 

A 26 what?

[Fl0und3rz]

How many barrels to the shot does it get?

[mountainman]

Looks similar to Kirby Allens mag. Whats the parent?

[Biggerhammer]

Kirby's has a different shoulder angle, neck and case tapper and it isn't proprietary as is the case with Kirby's. Parent case is a .338 Ultra Magnum. It's all in the reamers free bore.

ADDED:

Re-read: Kirby's cartridge is P-R-O-P-R-I-E-T-A-R-Y.

[mountainman]

Isnt Kirby' also based off the 338 Ultra?

[Biggerhammer]

Yep and the 6.5 Grendel was around waaaaaaay before it was tagged the "6.5 Grendel". after talking with CH4D the 6.5 Badger and the 6.5 Allen magnum were around waaaaay before either was tagged as such. It's nothing new, new mouse traps are far and few between. All one can do is try to improve it or form it to your likes or needs.

Like to see the velocity comparison with those splitting the cost of a 26 Nosler reamer.

[yorketransport]

How many barrels to the shot does it get?

I expect to torch this barrel while doing load development. That's alright though, it was just a 6.5x47 Lapua; nobody will miss it.  I have my eye on a 6.5x284 donor rifle with a 26" fluted barrel too.

[mountainman]

So the Allen mag is NOT proprietary?

[Biggerhammer]

How many barrels to the shot does it get?

I expect to torch this barrel while doing load development. That's alright though, it was just a 6.5x47 Lapua; nobody will miss it.  I have my eye on a 6.5x284 donor rifle with a 26" fluted barrel too.

The barrel things OK, they will make more. It's going to eat powder by the keg. I love it!

[mountainman]

How many barrels to the shot does it get?

I expect to torch this barrel while doing load development. That's alright though, it was just a 6.5x47 Lapua; nobody will miss it.  I have my eye on a 6.5x284 donor rifle with a 26" fluted barrel too.

tube on, tube off! 

[Biggerhammer]

The 26 Nosler's going to have the same barrel life.

[yorketransport]

How many barrels to the shot does it get?

I expect to torch this barrel while doing load development. That's alright though, it was just a 6.5x47 Lapua; nobody will miss it.  I have my eye on a 6.5x284 donor rifle with a 26" fluted barrel too.

tube on, tube off! 

And that's why I love Savages!

[mountainman]

How many barrels to the shot does it get?

I expect to torch this barrel while doing load development. That's alright though, it was just a 6.5x47 Lapua; nobody will miss it.  I have my eye on a 6.5x284 donor rifle with a 26" fluted barrel too.

tube on, tube off! 

And that's why I love Savages!

does make it simpler, doesnt it?

[AWS]

Northland Shooters Supply has "Remage" barrels.  Remington 700 barrels with a nut.  Pac Nor used to make Remington barrels with a nut also.

[Biggerhammer]

Northland Shooters Supply has "Remage" barrels.  Remington 700 barrels with a nut.  Pac Nor used to make Remington barrels with a nut also.

Yep. Pac-Nor, Benchmark, McGowen, blackhole Weaponry Etc. All Do Remage barrels with the nut.

[Hornseeker]

5 mils? Daaammm.... I know that is a small amount... can you tell me what that really means in inches of trajectory?

You guys are having way too much fun... or... is that possible?? hehehe

[BULLBLASTER]

5 mils? Daaammm.... I know that is a small amount... can you tell me what that really means in inches of trajectory?

You guys are having way too much fun... or... is that possible?? hehehe

180 inches from a 100 yard zero! For comparison my 300 rum shooting 215 bergers at 2950 takes roughly 6.3 mils or 226 inches from a 220 yard zero! That will be a flat shooting sob!

[rbros]

It is a barrel burner, but fun none the less.  Built a couple with a similar cartridge, 6.5/338 RUM Imp, a few  years ago.  US869 worked pretty well, as did N570 when it was available. 

[aer212]

It is a barrel burner, but fun none the less.  Built a couple with a similar cartridge, 6.5/338 RUM Imp, a few  years ago.  US869 worked pretty well, as did N570 when it was available.

When you say barrel burner, how many shots are you talking about? Also what kind of feedback did you get on the 6.5/.338? Reason I'm asking is I'm looking at having something fast built using the 6.5.

[yorketransport]

It is a barrel burner, but fun none the less.  Built a couple with a similar cartridge, 6.5/338 RUM Imp, a few  years ago.  US869 worked pretty well, as did N570 when it was available.

US869 is on my very short list of powders to try. The stick powders seem like they'd cause bridging problems with the sharp shoulder and narrow case neck. Plus it seems like the ball powders burn slightly cooler than comparable stick powders.

When you say barrel burner, how many shots are you talking about? Also what kind of feedback did you get on the 6.5/.338? Reason I'm asking is I'm looking at having something fast built using the 6.5.

I'm expecting somewhere along the lines of 600 rounds before accuracy really starts to fall off. That's assuming that I keep the barrel cool and clean.

Andrew

[Dan-o]

You guys have too much fun.......

Cool looking project, for sure.

[yorketransport]

I finally got a chance to shoot the Badger yesterday. This trip out was running powder charges of US869 in 1 grain increments from 90gr up to 99gr. No groups, just trying to get a baseline for max pressure and get the scope zeroed.

The results? I need to switch to Federal 215 primers . I ran the charges up to 95 grains which gave 3460 fps with the 160gr Matrix VLD. At 95 grains I got a slightly heavy bolt lift and I'm just starting to see a ring from the ejector if I hold the case at just the right angle. Primers look good though and are still slightly rounded at the edges. At this point, 95 grains of US869 is my max working charge. 94 grains gave 3419 fps and no signs at all.

The problem is that I got powder fouling and poor ignition with the CCI 250 primers that I had available. It wasn't bad, but the powder was obviously not being ignited very well. I suspected that this may happen if I didn't use the Federal primers. I solved that problem last night and ordered 3000 Federal 215 primers though.

Here's the gun as it sits. I lost a bet with a friend and had to try a Vortex scope, so I thought this would be a good test for it. I'm not unhappy with the scope at this point and I think it's actually a decent match. I'll see how it stacks up compared to the VX-3, Mk 4, Sightron SIII, Bushnell ERS and Nightforce scopes when we get them all together.


Hopefully I'll have more data after next weekend.

Andrew

[Biggerhammer]

Good to hear, the velocity is good @ 3419 and 94grains. Seeing that the 6.5 Allen Magnum pushes a 142 Sierra MK at 3381 with 94gr of US869 out of a 30" barrel and your pushing a heavier bullet. Looking forward to what you can squeeze out of it. Using Fed 215's. Can you post a pic of a fire formed case compared to a unformed .338 Ultra case?

I'm looking forward to shooting the chambering myself as soon as work slows down, you're havering all the fun for the time being.

[yorketransport]

Good to hear, the velocity is good @ 3419 and 94grains. Seeing that the 6.5 Allen Magnum pushes a 142 Sierra MK at 3381 with 94gr of US869 out of a 30" barrel and your pushing a heavier bullet. Looking forward to what you can squeeze out of it. Using Fed 215's. Can you post a pic of a fire formed case compared to a unformed .338 Ultra case?

I'm looking forward to shooting the chambering myself as soon as work slows down, you're havering all the fun for the time being.

That was exactly my thought.  I'm not at all unhappy with the numbers I saw. I don't think that US869 is slow enough though. There's still a lot of room in the case.

I'll get a picture up later of the two cases side by side. Plus I have one on it's way to you tomorrow.

[Biggerhammer]

Cool...  Thanks...

[Biggerhammer]

Do you have any Accurate 8700?

Maybe try:

Ramshot Magnum
WC-860
WC-872

[yorketransport]

Here's a fully formed 6.5 Badger case next to the 338 RUM parent case.

[Biggerhammer]

Awesome!!!

[yorketransport]

Do you have any Accurate 8700?

Maybe try:

Ramshot Magnum
WC-860
WC-872

It's funny, I have 28 different powders on hand but none of those!

On a side note, I picked up an 8# keg of Varget yesterday. Not sure what I'll do with it but it didn't seem like a bad investment.

[Jolten]

So what the verdict on this ? If you're tired of it I might be interested

[Branden]

Definitely an interesting round

[yorketransport]

So what the verdict on this ? If you're tired of it I might be interested

This turned out to be a pretty fun project. The final load is a 160gr Matrix VLD at 3460 fps from a 30" barrel. So far I've shot it out to 1721 yards (41.25 MOA of adjustment from 100 yards) with great results. What I like about it is that I can shoot it without a muzzle brake from a 13# gun without getting beat up. The trajectory is pretty similar to other RUM based calibers shooting high BC bullets but the 6.5mm has significantly less energy than the others when you get way out there.

This all comes at a cost though; barrel life is pretty limited if you're not careful. Of the two barrels that were made, one was done after 200 rounds but mine is still going strong at about 165 rounds. To be fair though the other barrel was a Black Hole ploy rifled barrel and was used to see how fast the 130-140gr bullets would go. I've only run the 160gr Matrix VLD from my McGowen 8" twist and I've been very careful about keeping it cool.

A 26 Nosler or 6.5x300 Weatherby is probably a better option for 90% of the already limited number of people who could make good use of a super speed 6.5mm. The Badger (and the other very similar designs like the 6.5 Allen Mag) are pretty specialized but do offer a pretty significant step up from either the Nosler or Weatherby cases. The one thing we haven't done yet is actually get an animal with the 6.5 Badger. I'll probably take it out a few times this year during deer season to see if I can connect with it.

[Jolten]

The cost of shooting a Ferrari I guess. 200 round barrel life isn't much if you target practice. What would you say the recoil level is at? About the same as a 338win?

[mountainman]

Didn't NWshooter have One of these?

[jay.sharkbait]

Didn't NWshooter have One of these?

No, BiggerHammer has the only other one.

[257 Wby Mag]

Wow....

[yorketransport]

The cost of shooting a Ferrari I guess. 200 round barrel life isn't much if you target practice. What would you say the recoil level is at? About the same as a 338win?

I expect the barrel to last a little closer to 500 rounds on mine. I had my concerns about the poly rifling from the start and this pretty much confirmed them. I wouldn't recommend a chambering like this for a PRS gun though! I had my load developed in 30 shots and 2 trips to the range. Everything after that has been just 3-5 shots at a time fired at long range to verify drops. Recoil in my gun is similar to a 7mm Mag from a heavy gun like a sendero. I can spot my own hits past about 400 yards when shooting prone off of a bipod.

Didn't NWshooter have One of these?

No, BiggerHammer has the only other one.

  It's actually Biggerhammer's reamer and design so it's unlikely that NWshooter has a 6.5 Badger; he may have something similar though.

[mountainman]

How far have you shot with it so far? Sounds like an awesome round and set-up you have there York!

[Jolten]

Which type of rifling would you think would give you a longer barrel life?

[yorketransport]

How far have you shot with it so far? Sounds like an awesome round and set-up you have there York!

1721 yards is as far as I've made it so far. Beyond that just screams for the 338 CheyTac!

Which type of rifling would you think would give you a longer barrel life?

Conventional rifling should work better than poly rifling just because there's a little more "meat" there to erode away with each shot.

[Jolten]

What about 5R?

[yorketransport]

What about 5R?

It may offer some advantages as far a slight increase in velocity because of the theoretical reduction in bore friction, but that's likely it. Barrel life would probably be extended slightly by going with chrome moly over stainless steel for the barrel though. Having the barrel nitrided when new could also extend the life a bit. The reality is that no matter what you do, these barrels will have a pretty short life span.

[Jolten]

Thanks for letting me pick your brain on this cartridge.