Weyerhauser St. Helens Tree Farm

[bobcat]

The good news is: Margaret, Toutle, Coweeman, and Winston permits should be much easier to draw this year (if people are paying attention).

Do you think the access fees will keep enough people from applying that it will make a difference?  I dont think it will. But we'll see.

Yes I think so. But, that's why I said "if people are paying attention." How many people will apply for permits in those units like they always do, with no idea that if they draw, it will cost $150 to access the unit?

[pianoman9701]

The good news is: Margaret, Toutle, Coweeman, and Winston permits should be much easier to draw this year (if people are paying attention).

Do you think the access fees will keep enough people from applying that it will make a difference?  I dont think it will. But we'll see.

Yes I think so. But, that's why I said "if people are paying attention." How many people will apply for permits in those units like they always do, with no idea that if they draw, it will cost $150 to access the unit?

...if there are even permits left by the time they catch on.

[bobcat]

You think there's a chance that all 15,000 permits will be sold? 

[pianoman9701]

yes

[bobcat]

My guess is at the most, half of the permits will be sold.

Unless... I wonder how many will be sold to non-hunters? Hadn't thought of that until now. 

[pianoman9701]

I think lots of families with kids will get them for camping, fishing, biking, etc.

[Nice Racks]

I wonder if "tree huggers" and groups like our friends from PETA can put a hurtin on us by buying up a large number permits.

[fireweed]

As everyone is aware I am totally against the permits, especially for non-motorized access.  There is only one reason I would stoop so low as to buy one, and that is a NON HUNTING issue.  The St. Helens Tree farm blocks several Forest Service trailheads that my family hikes on.  If the gates are locked we have to drive 3 hours to the back end of the trails, if the gates are open its a 45 minute drive to the trailhead.  Its a savings in gas more than the permit.

I've been hounding the Forest Service for a DECADE to get an easement.  Now I'd have to pay a private company to get to a public trailhead.
Clearly access to (or through) these timberlands isn't all about hunting.  Alienating other users doesn't help.  Bringing all recreationists into the fold, and having our state reps hear from groups BESIDES hunters will help.

[Big6bull]

I can't see this changing the draw odds of permit only hunts. I think ppl will still put in for those and buy a permit if they actually draw (or just hunt the state land in it). I think fewer ppl are going to hunt general season units. There's too many issues already here (low numbers from hoof rot. Herbasides, etc) to tack in an extra cost. I think the permission to camp along with it I'll be temping for a lot of ppl for a lot of those units though.

[bobcat]

We don't yet know if camping will be allowed on St Helens.

As for draw odds, there's no doubt in my mind that drawing a Toutle or Margaret permit will be easier. Or even a Coweeman or Winston cow permit. How much public land is there in the Coweeman? 

I know of several people who won't be applying for those permits this year because of the $150 access fee, and I'm one of them.


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[funkster]

  If the gates are locked we have to drive 3 hours to the back end of the trails

Now I'd have to pay a private company to get to a public trailhead.

Seriously not trying to be a jacka$$ but if you really want to be heard, I wouldn't state you can gain public entry by driving to the back end to access a trail. And then state you now would have to pay a timber company for easier access. You're kinda contradicting yourself. It comes across as a personal problem instead of a everyone problem.

[fireweed]

  If the gates are locked we have to drive 3 hours to the back end of the trails

Now I'd have to pay a private company to get to a public trailhead.

Seriously not trying to be a jacka$$ but if you really want to be heard, I wouldn't state you can gain public entry by driving to the back end to access a trail. And then state you now would have to pay a timber company for easier access. You're kinda contradicting yourself. It comes across as a personal problem instead of a everyone problem.

Like most long trails (or roads) it goes from point A to Point B.  Shouldn't the public be able to get to both ends? 

[Bookworm007]

The good news is: Margaret, Toutle, Coweeman, and Winston permits should be much easier to draw this year (if people are paying attention).

Do you think the access fees will keep enough people from applying that it will make a difference?  I dont think it will. But we'll see.

Yes I think so. But, that's why I said "if people are paying attention." How many people will apply for permits in those units like they always do, with no idea that if they draw, it will cost $150 to access the unit?

How many folks every year come on and say "I just drew XXXXXX tag and have never hunted there before" I think at least the first year there will be alot of folks who get a rude surprise.

[BowForElk]

I'm actually afraid of what might happen if they try to force the timber companies into allowing free access.

What it would mean is closed gates 100% of the time. The "access" would be walk in only, and that would be worse overall than having to pay a relatively small fee for drive in access anytime you want.

I do wish we could get some legislation passed that would allow the state to more easily obtain easements across private land in order to access landlocked public land.

$150.00 may seem like a relatively small fee but for some thats the difference in hunting or not. Adding that with costs of licenses, permits, etc its tough on someone thats barely making ends meet. I know the "if you can't afford it, you can't do it" but its a pretty sad day when your too broke to hunt because of pay to play costs.

Also its 150.00 now, whats it gonna be next year? or 5 years? Its absolutely ridiculous.


And as far as the state land thats up there you should be able to get to it via winston crk rd from mossy rock up north. MY guess is they are gonna have to put up a bunch more gates as to allow you to get to the state land but not anywhere else?
Seems like it could be a pretty big issue to just say F you too bad. 


and I wouldn't mind at all if they closed it all down to walk in only if it was still free. thats how early archery season always was. They wouldn't open the gates til after modern went in.

[BowForElk]

Posted this in the other Weyco thread thought Id put it here too!

I dunno if you guys know about the governors "Blue Ribbon Task Force on Parks and Outdoor Recreation" but this might be another avenue for us to pursue.

http://www.rco.wa.gov/boards/TaskForce.shtml


Also here is another link to a page where the entire state is posting things they want changed or preserved.

Engage Outdoor Washington
http://www.engageoutdoorwashington.com