What could happen if you illegal baiting deer

[smalldog]

What would probably happen is the same thing that happened to bear baiting. Bear baiting you can't even use scents to attract, that means scents of sex attraction and scents of the smell of different types of food. Its all baiting in the animal and that is exactly how this liberal governor and the head of the game dept. will look at it. How do I know, because that is what they did to bear baiting.  So when you take these polls and pit people against another persons way of hunting you will lose in the long run. Deer baiting and baiting for Elk you could loose the same way. Scents of attraction, that means deer urine, scent glands are also used for deer. Elk would be the same way, and the only thing that would be legal is scents to take away your human odor. Apple scents or any scents that smells like food would be illegal.  Our forefathers used all these things and developed skills in using them.  If you don't  want to take the fun out of hunting then be careful. I have used baiting and I have used scents and I personally like sitting over scraps and making mock scraps and using scent glands and have been very successful in doing so for whitetail deer.  I take my hat off to anybody that shoots a nice buck whether its done by baiting or by scents or by grunt tubes and rattling or using all these things all at once.  Blacktail deer are a whole different animal and the hunter that has mastered getting a nice buck and is consistent as far as I am concerned is a master hunter. Mule deer is a different deer altogether and take spacial skills for that deer.  How would the Elk hunter like it if they said that bugling should be illegal because if gives you to much of an edge.  I have killed Elk by bugling and believe me its takes a spacial type of skill to setup on an Elk and get him into close range to kill. I know guys that have taken over 40 Elk bugling them in.  I am not jealous one bit because, these guys work their tail of getting these bulls.   I love hunting and I love hearing stories of the hunt as long as it is legal.

[Fowlweather25]

Im so friggin lost right now!

[muleyslayer]

Im so friggin lost right now!
[/quote
 

[gasman]

Im so friggin lost right now!
[/quote
 

Its not Illegal to bait for deer.

It is illegal to bait for bear.

Two different animals, with different rules.

[Bmcox86]

 

[DRobnsn]

Account Hack Maybe? If not 

[ICEMAN]

Im so friggin lost right now!

I think i get it.

He is pissed over the polls about baiting. He does not like hunters getting pitted against each other. He is comparing losing bear baiting against the possibility of losing baiting for deer and elk....

[Fowlweather25]

I guess that would make sense ICE.

Account Hack Maybe? If not 

thats kinda what i was wondering!

[kenzmad]

Squirrel!


 

[jasnt]

All made sense to me

[Blacktail Sniper]

Im so friggin lost right now!

I think i get it.

He is pissed over the polls about baiting. He does not like hunters getting pitted against each other. He is comparing losing bear baiting against the possibility of losing baiting for deer and elk....

 

I think he just worded his thread title a little off and left out a word or two...

But what he says does make sense if you think about it, and could happen, as far as scents and attractants becoming considered bait as they are for bear.

[smalldog]

I am pissed over the polls and all it takes is some idiot group to decide to get signatures like they did on bear hunting and next thing is its on the ballot. When that happens then its up to the voters and that is how you can loose on this. The anti hunting groups sit back and watch and wait for the right time and they will act on it.  People forget that the game dept. is not funded by sportsman, its funded by the tax payer in the general fund and that is what gives the right to anybody to go get signatures and get it on the ballot.  That's very dangerous to the sportsman. The voter can take away anything they want if they get the signatures and it ends up on the battot. Do not underestimate the power of that system.  Years ago the game dept. was solely funded by the sportsman. The game dept. went bankrupt and the governor took over the game dept.  If all the sportsman clubs in this state would have united then, we could have stopped this.  At that time all the sportsman were all fighting amongst themselves instead of using their heads and we lost our control of the game dept.  I know I am rambling on this but, I have been hunting this state since 1969 and I have seen a lot of bad changes.

[Fowlweather25]

So are you just asking that we dont talk about baiting on a public forum?

[smalldog]

What I am trying to say is just enjoy what we have. Embrace the different ways of hunting, who knows you may want to try some other way to hunt.  Just because we don't agree with the way someone hunts dosent mean we will feel the same way next year.

[Elkaholic daWg]

What I am trying to say is just enjoy what we have. Embrace the different ways of hunting, who knows you may want to try some other way to hunt.  Just because we don't agree with the way someone hunts dosent mean we will feel the same way next year.

  :tup:We ARE too easy of a group to splinter Boys!(and Girls)

[Birdguy]

What I am trying to say is just enjoy what we have. Embrace the different ways of hunting, who knows you may want to try some other way to hunt.  Just because we don't agree with the way someone hunts dosent mean we will feel the same way next year.

I could not agree more. How many guys that now muzzy or archery hunt used to, or started out rifle hunting? It kills me each year when we as "sportsmen" get all worked up because the seasons get shorter, group "x" gets a better season, that group gets more permits, or a bunch of other issues. Bottom line is the sport is changing each day, access is going away, seasons are shorter, game is tougher to find, pay to play is where we are headed, timber companies are just charging access like the DNR. We as sportsmen and women need to be thankful for anyone else enjoying our sport, if you are the only one hunting it will not be long before no one is hunting. I do not agree with a lot of what is going on but "we" need to stick together and ensure all of us have our opportunities or soon none of us will be able to enjoy our chosen method of hunting .

[smalldog]

Thankyou Birdguy, that is exactly what I am trying to say. I am glad that someone understands the way things are going.  The sportsman and woman need to get more active at the game dept. meetings or phone calls or e-mails and give our voice a loader cry to try and better our sports.  Lets stick together

[DRobnsn]

Thankyou Birdguy, that is exactly what I am trying to say. I am glad that someone understands the way things are going.  The sportsman and woman need to get more active at the game dept. meetings or phone calls or e-mails and give our voice a loader cry to try and better our sports.  Lets stick together

I'm with you smalldog, I hadn't seen the other thread before I read yours so to me it sounded very strange at first. 

[billythekidrock]

I am pissed over the polls and all it takes is some idiot group to decide to get signatures like they did on bear hunting and next thing is its on the ballot. When that happens then its up to the voters and that is how you can loose on this. The anti hunting groups sit back and watch and wait for the right time and they will act on it.  People forget that the game dept. is not funded by sportsman, its funded by the tax payer in the general fund and that is what gives the right to anybody to go get signatures and get it on the ballot.  That's very dangerous to the sportsman. The voter can take away anything they want if they get the signatures and it ends up on the battot. Do not underestimate the power of that system.  Years ago the game dept. was solely funded by the sportsman. The game dept. went bankrupt and the governor took over the game dept.  If all the sportsman clubs in this state would have united then, we could have stopped this.  At that time all the sportsman were all fighting amongst themselves instead of using their heads and we lost our control of the game dept.  I know I am rambling on this but, I have been hunting this state since 1969 and I have seen a lot of bad changes.

 

[Fowlweather25]

Thankyou Birdguy, that is exactly what I am trying to say. I am glad that someone understands the way things are going.  The sportsman and woman need to get more active at the game dept. meetings or phone calls or e-mails and give our voice a loader cry to try and better our sports.  Lets stick together

I'm with you smalldog, I hadn't seen the other thread before I read yours so to me it
sounded very strange at first. 

Yep, same here. My bad.

[Elkaholic daWg]

I am pissed over the polls and all it takes is some idiot group to decide to get signatures like they did on bear hunting and next thing is its on the ballot. When that happens then its up to the voters and that is how you can loose on this. The anti hunting groups sit back and watch and wait for the right time and they will act on it.  People forget that the game dept. is not funded by sportsman, its funded by the tax payer in the general fund and that is what gives the right to anybody to go get signatures and get it on the ballot.  That's very dangerous to the sportsman. The voter can take away anything they want if they get the signatures and it ends up on the battot. Do not underestimate the power of that system.  Years ago the game dept. was solely funded by the sportsman. The game dept. went bankrupt and the governor took over the game dept.  If all the sportsman clubs in this state would have united then, we could have stopped this.  At that time all the sportsman were all fighting amongst themselves instead of using their heads and we lost our control of the game dept.  I know I am rambling on this but, I have been hunting this state since 1969 and I have seen a lot of bad changes.

 

  x2

[smalldog]

I am sorry this is so confusing, this is about another post that was taking a poll on baiting deer.  When I sat down to post this, I had everything in my head on what I was going to say and tried to put it down to read. It made sense when I read it then but, later when I read it I can understand why people was answering the way that they did.  I am sorry  for the confusion.

[Fowlweather25]

Its all good man. Makes sense now! And i totally agree with you to boot.

[gun-dog]

interesting.....

[Tom Tamer]

It's what I think the WDFW wants, divided we fall. Look at how their public input on hunting regs has changed. It used to be a open forum and discussion, now they segmented it into groupings, if you want to talk Chukar go to this guy, elk go to this guy...etc. When asked what do kind of hunter are you( bow,ML,Rifle) I say A hunter. I own them all and pick and choose each year. It baffles some guys that I don't lobby for one specific weapon. Hell if I saw you out hunting with Atatl...I'd say Go for it! United we stand gentlemen. They want us bickering back and forth.

[darren]

It's what I think the WDFW wants, divided we fall. Look at how their public input on hunting regs has changed. It used to be a open forum and discussion, now they segmented it into groupings, if you want to talk Chukar go to this guy, elk go to this guy...etc. When asked what do kind of hunter are you( bow,ML,Rifle) I say A hunter. I own them all and pick and choose each year. It baffles some guys that I don't lobby for one specific weapon. Hell if I saw you out hunting with Atatl...I'd say Go for it! United we stand gentlemen. They want us bickering back and forth.

Yeah I was reading the Anti-hunting wikipedia page and following up an argument I heard Steven Rinella make about the politics of hunting. His observation, that makes sense when you look at the broad public polling data, is that approval for hunting in general is high, but when you start drilling into specific quarry and tactics (hunting fox, hunting with dogs, trapping, etc), the polls flip to disapproval.

So a good strategy if you're in the anti-hunting camp would be to continually nip away at the edges and make each category of quarry or tactics illegal and eventually "hunting" is legal but that's such a narrow set of activities that it's meaningless or unrecognizable.

I think the way you fight that at the grass roots level is take your kids and your friends and your family hunting. I'm trying to get into hunting myself as someone in their late thirties. There are a lot of barriers, legal and social, I would say. Getting to the point where you feel in your gut that yeah this is a fair chase situation, we're meeting the animal on its terms here, has the chance of happening long after someone finds they're interested in trying hunting or learning more about it.

[smalldog]

You only have about four counties that have the majority of the votes. That is a shame because, most of those people don't really give a dam about hunting. As far as they are concerned if you buy your meat at Safeway that you are saving an animal. What they need to do is go to a slaughter house and see how things are really done. They would have a lot more respect for the hunter. I have an idea what they are teaching our kids in school and it is not what you think, if you want to suprise yourself ask what they were taught each day. I do know that if we want to keep our sport we have to educate what hunting is all about. It is every sportsmans job to educate your children and grandchildren so we can keep our sport.  The schools are trying to educate your children that hunting is killing and you are a murderer. They are trying to educate your kids against use, so they will not want to buy a weapon and hunt like their parents do.   Sportsman and I mean all sportsman, fisherman and hunters and trappers and so on need to come together so we can save our sports.  Its is in danger of serious change.  We as sportsman need to send a message to the governor and to all our representatives that we are not going to let that happen.

[grade-creek-rd]

WDFW has nothing to do with the laws...Seattle voters do...gotta go, I hear a blackhawk circling my house & a guy who looks just like Mike McGinn just rode his bicycle past my house in a tie dye shirt....I'm off to my underground bunker...in the famous words of Clark Griswold..."Later dude"

[jackelope]

Im so friggin lost right now!
[/quote
 

Its not Illegal to bait for deer.

It is illegal to bait for bear.

Two different animals, with different rules.

This has nothing to do with current law. This guy is concerned that deer baiting could become illegal, like bear baiting is now.

[smalldog]

That's exactly what I am talking about, four counties and Seattle is one of them. The WDFW is run by the Governor and the people that he appoints.

[darren]

That's exactly what I am talking about, four counties and Seattle is one of them. The WDFW is run by the Governor and the people that he appoints.

Well one statistic I just saw put it at 7% of the US that hunts. So it seems like Washington is probably just like the broader US -- hunting is a minority participating sport that's basically regulated by non-hunters. The laws aren't going away so time to appeal to hearts and minds.

I've talked with a number of non-hunters in my circle as I've transitioned from being a non-hunter to someone who wants to be a hunter one day. I've been able to persuade people that it's reasonable, but their initial/gut reactions are pretty negative. They just don't get it and there's enough of a divide between their life and everyday experience and hunting/hunters that they don't bump into counter arguments or actual experience often enough to change mindset.

[grade-creek-rd]

Ok...since nobody bit on my smartass reply...basically poking fun at the seattle voters...here's a seriuos thought of hope...currently in the U.S. there is a movement of healthy eating...it seems we the people are getting tired of big box companies ruling the media with their toxic foods (high fructose corn syrup, pink sludge meat, chemical additives) and the movement is swaying towards organic foods...IF only we as hunters can join with organic food consumer groups to show that hunting (or "harvesting") wild game is no different than picking wild mushrooms or eating "free range organic chicken" then I believe we will sway enough opinion to ensure huntings future...but we must stop those few rotten eggs that ruin a "hunters" image in the non hunting world...I.E. poachers, drunken garbage spewing hunters, game showing tied to the roof (exceptions are displays of horns of course...nothing to be ashamed of) causing the game to spoil on the ride home, etc...oh and we need to stand together as one with a lobby group in DC pushing our Government to crack down on the unhealthy food producers...we did it with tobacco...we can do it to GMO as well.

G-C-R

[darren]

Ok...since nobody bit on my smartass reply...basically poking fun at the seattle voters...here's a seriuos thought of hope...currently in the U.S. there is a movement of healthy eating...it seems we the people are getting tired of big box companies ruling the media with their toxic foods (high fructose corn syrup, pink sludge meat, chemical additives) and the movement is swaying towards organic foods...IF only we as hunters can join with organic food consumer groups to show that hunting (or "harvesting") wild game is no different than picking wild mushrooms or eating "free range organic chicken" then I believe we will sway enough opinion to ensure huntings future...but we must stop those few rotten eggs that ruin a "hunters" image in the non hunting world...I.E. poachers, drunken garbage spewing hunters, game showing tied to the roof (exceptions are displays of horns of course...nothing to be ashamed of) causing the game to spoil on the ride home, etc...oh and we need to stand together as one with a lobby group in DC pushing our Government to crack down on the unhealthy food producers...we did it with tobacco...we can do it to GMO as well.

Yeah man, I'm right there with you. That's a big part of why I'm getting into hunting. I want high quality organic meat and I want to be close to where my food comes from. Hank Shaw's got a pretty good blog that is pretty much what you're talking about here. Gateway articles on getting into hunting and fishing and foraging, recipes and so on. It's called Hunter Angler Gardener Cook.

[Loudscoutii]

Median voter theorem may be at play here. You can toss out all arguments on either side, because morals will lead the discussion. Not that I agree, but the broader definition of hunting ( man vs animal ) are pretty universally accepted, but the introduction of technology (whether it be dogs, or electronic calling) seems to be unfair to the ~93% who do not hunt. Whether or not they have any experience with how effective these techniques are becomes irrelevant.



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[buckfvr]

Youd be wise to plan on it happening............not a matter of if, but a matter of when.  It will wind up being another new law without scientific merit.  Of all the guys I know who bait extensively, most actually hurt their chances of success.  Way more to it than using a camera and throwing down some chow. 

Most successful mature buck killing guys I know do not use bait....they just learn their quarry.