12 power Binoculars for hunting/scouting?

[c.jones]

In the market for a new pair of binos, have a decent set of 10x 42's and was going to upgrade them but have questioned replacing them with the same power of new binos..2 pairs of 10x42 in the arsenol or make due with the old 10x42's and have the new pair be 12's or 15's..strongly leaning toward 12's in a vortex viper or..? I know the necessity to use a tripod increases with the use of 15's etc and think the 12's would be more moble..Hunting in Central/North Central Wa and a disciplined glasser etc.. What are your thoughts folks?

[Bean Counter]

I was just having this conversation with someone at work. He likewise has 10x42s and is considering a pair of 12s.  I am trying to dissuade him from going with 12s. I've looked through them before but think they're a solution in search of a problem. My experience in using top quality glass for the past several years and attributing a lot of hunting success to them is that if you own a pair of 10s and 12s, that you will most likely end up grabbing the pair with the better optical quality rather than 10 vs 12 based solely on magnification. If you don't already have a spotter or a pair of 15s then this should be your next purchase. Spend the money you need to buy right the first time; if you buy cheap, you're going to buy twice. 

[BKMFR]

Spent a ton of time sheep and goat hunting behind Bino's. I agree with the earlier post buy right the first time. After using Swar., Zeiss, Leica, Leupold.... my main "Go to" pair is a set of 10-15x50 Leica Douvids. They are not a zoom they are either 10 or 15 power. scanning an area with the 10's works great, than getting a rest or tripod and work the area with the 15's.... They are clear and work great as you would hope a Leica would. 

[MtnMuley]

To your question, yes.  As a disciplined glasser 12's should be no problem.  Personally, I'd go high end as mentioned before.  Swaro HD's are unbeatable in my opinion.  Definitely a tripod if you plan on going the 15 route.  Swaro 15's can be found quite often for great deals.  I picked up a new dealer demo pair a few years back for $1200, and have seen them close to that numerous times before.  Buying any Swaro used or not gets you a lifetime warranty.  I've used their warranty several times, and they are great to work with.

[c.jones]

Thanks for the input everyone..I have a spotter to use (again nothing fancy) I know enough to hold  the "best optics" I can buy mantra in high regard, but in all seriousness budget wise I just wont be able to crack the $1000.00 mark for new glass..still weighing the options. I had/have some 10x42 Vortex vipers on layaway and was considering the jump to 12 or 15's..?

[andersonjk4]

I went through a similar decision last year.  I needed to get a pair of binos for my fiancé to use while we were out hunting.  I already had a pair of 10x36 binos that I really liked.  They are great for hiking and whitetail hunting the Palouse, but were not great in low light and up in the mountains glassing for elk and bears at long distances.  Like you I was thinking I would step up to a 12 or 15 power.  I ended up getting a pair of 12x42 and love them.  I'm very glad I went with the higher power.  If I want to go lighter weight or I'm hunting closer distances (turkey, busting brush, etc.) I grab the smaller 10's and when I'm going to be sitting and glassing I grab the 12's and have my spotter handy.  Great combo in my opinion.  Go with the higher power you won't be sorry. My

[Bean Counter]

Thanks for the input everyone..I have a spotter to use (again nothing fancy) I know enough to hold  the "best optics" I can buy mantra in high regard, but in all seriousness budget wise I just wont be able to crack the $1000.00 mark for new glass..still weighing the options. I had/have some 10x42 Vortex vipers on layaway and was considering the jump to 12 or 15's..?

I did a check of a few local CL pages and here is the 15x56 consensus I have developed. Median listing price for Vortex Kaibabs: $900, Swaro SLCs: $1,200. You can probably talk the Vortex owners down $100-200, swaro owners, maybe a little less so. Higher end glass is going to hold its value better.

If money is really tight for you I would make this your summer project. I would even prioritize it over scouting. Check the CL, eBay, and other classified sections on a daily basis and be ready to pounce on a good deal. Know what you're willing to go for and the difference between a good deal and a great deal. The good thing is that you're asking this question in mid May and not mid September--you have time to be patient and find a good deal. Plus save up a few bucks here and there in the mean time. You can also list up your current binos and spotter on CL and since you have time to sell those, try to milk a few bucks out of them. Since they're lower end you can expect to lose some money on them, and you can count that as a life lesson for buy once, cry once. Maybe you can make one less scouting trip for your fall hunts and with the money gas money saved you can also throw that in the pile, as well.

My spotter and binoculars together retail for a total of about $3,000. They were bought on the used market but both in brand new condition. I paid a total of $1,400 for both of them--less than 1/2 retail. Years later I can still unload them for at least as much as I paid for them, if I had to (but I won't!).  Try to beat that 

[jjhunter]

I thought that my 12x50 Swarovision were easy to handhold, but obviously, that much more amazing on the tripod.

After owning and hunting with about every piece of glass made, I prefer a 10x42 for "around the neck" and a 15x56 SLC in my pack.   If could have only one binocular, it would probably be a 10x50 - Swarovision for me.   On a budget, a used or demo SLC or Leica Ultravid.

With any piece of glass that I packed, I would make sure that I could attach it to a tripod.   

[b23]

I've got a set of 15x56 Vortex Kaibabs and they are great binos and glass quality is extremely good and having compared them to the 15x56 Swaros I'd put them on par with the Swaros.

BUT, with that much magnification, to get the real benefit of their power, they need to be on some type of rest.  Whether it's a tripod, window mount or whatever, it makes a huge difference over trying to just freehand them.  Since I bought my Kaibabs, I bet I don't use my spotting scope half as much as I used to.

If I could only have one set of binos and a spotting scope, it would be a no brainer, 8.5 x 42 Swarovision binos for me.  If I had to keep the budget a bit tighter I'd go with either the Vortex Viper or Razor 8x42 HD.

[Bob33]

The "exit pupil" of an optic is computed as the size of the objective lens divided by the magnification.  A 10x40 binocular has a 4mm exit pupil: 40 divided by 10.

Larger objective lens result in larger exit pupils. More magnification results in smaller exit pupils.

The average human eye constricts to around 3mm in daylight. In very dim light, a good eye can dilate to as much as 7mm.

When looking through an optic, your eye absorbs the lesser of the exit pupil and your pupil size. In broad daylight when your eye has a 3mm pupil, an optic with an exit pupil of 7mm will not provide more light to your eyes.

What is significance to a hunter is this: game is often most active in low light conditions. Glassing for game in the early and late hours of the day is when you need the larger exit pupil of a binocular or spotting scope. During midday, the use of an 8x20 binocular (with an exit pupil of 2.5mm) will provide just about as much light as your eyes can use. However, the use of that same 8x20 binocular in low light will limit what you could see through an equivalent optic with a larger exit pupil.

A 10x42 binocular has a 4.2mm exit pupil. A 12x42 has a 3.5mm exit pupil. If your eye's pupil is 5mm, both will limit the light your eyes receive, but the larger 12 power will limit it more and essentially produce a dimmer image.

For all-around use when planning to glass at all hours of the day, a 10 power is at the upper end of what I would prefer to use. For anything greater than 10x, I would prefer to have a separate optic like a spotting scope. Larger optics are generally heavier, have a significantly reduced field of view, have smaller exit pupils and thus can be dimmer, and produce more noticeable movement when handheld.

For my money, I would buy an alpha glass binocular that was either 8x42 or 10x42. If I couldn't afford alpha glass, I would wait until I could. A binocular is, in my opinion, the single most important item that any big game hunter should have. Nothing else even comes close. I am always amazed at how much more game is seen through top quality optics. The guy with the $100 binocular and $1000 gun has it bass akwards

After buying a binocular, I would buy a reasonably priced spotting scope in either 50mm or 60mm: small and light enough to tote in the backpack. Even a lower end scope with 20x magnification will generally show you far more detail than a 12x binocular.
 

[c.jones]

Appreciate the replies and input on this subject..Definately still trying to decide on a course of action. Spotting scope I use has 15-40 magnification likely to be replaced next yr..Just cant get past going with the 12 powers for big country glassing sessions..seems the majority of the country I use them in would be cross canyon, big draw/drainage type areas were I would be wanting a little more magnification out of the 10x42's yet bigger field of view than the spotter as I rarely use it beyond the 15-20 mag range..? Still might just upgrade the 10 x 42s in the end though..

[bearpaw]

I have a 15x56 Swarovski and love them, but I've noticed that many people I let look through them would not like that much power. I think 10x is plenty for most people. If you use binos a lot and are not worried about steadying the higher magnification then you will probably appreciate 12x.