Why most probably don't see wolves as much of a public safety problem

[idahohuntr]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves. 

[bearpaw]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves.

I've read that before, also one of the reasons I say that Director Anderson is the best director we've had in decades.

[wolfbait]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves.

If WDFW were "trying" to delist don't you think they would be interested in confirming wolf packs as fast as they could? The facts on the ground don't match WDFW's "trying" unless you are talking about steers.

[idahohuntr]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves.

If WDFW were "try" to delist don't you think they would be interested in confirming wolf packs as fast as they could? The facts on the ground don't match WDFW's "trying" unless you are talking about steers.

They are...and they seek all the public sightings of wolves they can to aid in their efforts to find and confirm wolf packs.  If you are so smart why don't you tell them where the wolves are?  Of course you have probably alienated all of the staff in your area to the point that they don't take you seriously so maybe you could tell somebody who they will actually consider listening to 

[wolfbait]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves.

If WDFW were "try" to delist don't you think they would be interested in confirming wolf packs as fast as they could? The facts on the ground don't match WDFW's "trying" unless you are talking about steers.

They are...and they seek all the public sightings of wolves they can to aid in their efforts to find and confirm wolf packs.  If you are so smart why don't you tell them where the wolves are?  Of course you have probably alienated all of the staff in your area to the point that they don't take you seriously so maybe you could tell somebody who they will actually consider listening to 

They know where there are packs that need confirming, in fact I'm quite sure they know of more packs then I do, after all the reported wolf problems and sightings.

Back in Feb 16 2011 a friend and I were hunting wolves with cameras, in two weeks we had taken pictures of seven different wolves from Alder Cr to Carlton, and many wolf kills from Mazama to Gold cr. One day we were in on the Golden Doe access road, and the BBC crew showed up, they were filming their, I love the wolf film. They interviewed us twice, once to get our opinion and the second time to download some wolf pictures we had taken.

At the first interveiw they said they hadn't seen a wolf yet, we told them we had taken pictures of two different wolves close to where we were standing on 2/9/2011, in fact there were wolf kills within a hundred yards. We also told them of the Cow cr wolf pack that had six wolves in it, (we had loaned a trail cam to the people who had this pack run their dog under their house). I found out later that the BBC crew interviewed these people also. I ask Jasmine of CNW why Fitkin wouldn't confirm the War cr pack, and she said she knew Fitkin knew of the War cr pack but that it was to expensive to confirm wolf packs. So then I ask her where they got all the money to run a cougar collaring program, with several WDFW rigs at a time along with the hounds. She didn't have an answer.  That Spring WDFW came out with One maybe Two wolves in the Lookout pack, I could go on but I'm sure most people understand what the outcome will be with WDFW and wolves, those who don't are in for some sad reality as the years go by.

I think Bone got a picture of three wolves that spring across from Carlton also.

[idahohuntr]

You're an interesting character...I'll give you that...cavorting around with CNW, WDFW, and BBC all in a days work.  Hiding trail cams under porches, confirming wolves, and doing tv interviews...

I'd pay good money to see your interview...I'm betting that is some youtube material!

I'm not saying this to be mean-spirited at all...I disagree with you a lot, but I bet you are anything but a boring guy to hang around. 

[wolfbait]

The film they put out was a pro-wolf joke and there was no WDFW that we saw, plus we wouldn't waste any time on WDFW, we don't like it when they lie to us, they know, you know they are lying and they just keep shoveling the same crap. I think it's what they call BS'ing the fans. It looks like they have a few fans on H-W.

[Special T]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves.

If WDFW were "try" to delist don't you think they would be interested in confirming wolf packs as fast as they could? The facts on the ground don't match WDFW's "trying" unless you are talking about steers.

They are...and they seek all the public sightings of wolves they can to aid in their efforts to find and confirm wolf packs.  If you are so smart why don't you tell them where the wolves are?  Of course you have probably alienated all of the staff in your area to the point that they don't take you seriously so maybe you could tell somebody who they will actually consider listening to 

Since the WDFW is so interested in documenting wolves and want all the help they can get, Why did they turn down a FREE trapper from the Cattlemen's association? You combine that with the treatment many people have received while reporting wolves, and you should at least acknowledge the skepticism.   I would bet if the WDFW had accepted the cattlemens help we would already have 18 pairs documented.  There are MANY ways to slow down the "Documentation" of packs. Ive heard people say its NOT in the WDFW interest to delay, and the WDFW has said they lack the funds to properly document wolves... This doesn't pass the sniff test, and since the department has no interest in clarifying there is little reason to give them the benefit of the doubt.

[idahohuntr]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/about/director/ltr_natural_resource_committees_12-18-13.pdf

Go read this and then tell me WDFW is not trying to federally de-list wolves.

If WDFW were "try" to delist don't you think they would be interested in confirming wolf packs as fast as they could? The facts on the ground don't match WDFW's "trying" unless you are talking about steers.

They are...and they seek all the public sightings of wolves they can to aid in their efforts to find and confirm wolf packs.  If you are so smart why don't you tell them where the wolves are?  Of course you have probably alienated all of the staff in your area to the point that they don't take you seriously so maybe you could tell somebody who they will actually consider listening to 

Since the WDFW is so interested in documenting wolves and want all the help they can get, Why did they turn down a FREE trapper from the Cattlemen's association?
I don't know the details of this offer.  Have you specifically asked them why they turned down the offer?  Were there any strings attached from the Cattlemens? Was it a specific person they had in mind or were they simply offering $$$? 
You combine that with the treatment many people have received while reporting wolves, and you should at least acknowledge the skepticism.  All of my interaction with WDFW and the information on their website suggests they are very eager to get reports of wolves from the public.  They probably have to sift through a lot of bogus reports for every credible one...have they been too quick to dismiss some?? Probably.  Last time I heard the wolf guy (Martorello??) speak he was very clear that given how migratory wolves are it is very possible that one could see a wolf ANYWHERE in Washington state.  Every inch of Washington could have a wolf pass through it.  With a growing population Im sure wdfw is becoming less skeptical of wolf reports  But they are more interested in clusters of sightings or sightings of multiple wolves because they want to confirm packs...not individual wolves. I think some people have this unrealistic fantasy that if they see a wolf and call wdfw they should see a team of biologists racing to the site with collars in hand  I would bet if the WDFW had accepted the cattlemens help we would already have 18 pairs documented.  There are MANY ways to slow down the "Documentation" of packs. Ive heard people say its NOT in the WDFW interest to delay, and the WDFW has said they lack the funds to properly document wolves... This doesn't pass the sniff test, and since the department has no interest in clarifying there is little reason to give them the benefit of the doubt. I agree that they have no interest in misrepresenting wolf numbers or the numbers of any wildlife which they are responsible for managing...they frequently discuss how the wolf population is growing rapidly or expected to grow rapidly.  I have not heard lack of funding as a concern for not documenting wolves...the wolf budget has grown substantially recently.  They have had difficulty trapping as many wolves as they would like but I've not heard them claim $$ as a big issue specific to trapping efforts.  Most of what you are describing as fact is really just gossip with little supporting documentation.  I would encourage you to look more objectively at what WDFW is doing and rely less on internet forums or coffee house chatter

[KFhunter]

WDFW said they turned down the cattlemens trapper was because they didn't want to appear to have favoritism, or appear that their decisions are being swayed by an outside organization.

[wolfbait]

WDFW said they turned down the cattlemens trapper was because they didn't want to appear to have favoritism, or appear that their decisions are being swayed by an outside organization.

And yet WDFW fawn over CNW like they were from the same family. Like Special T said if we had a trapper from the cattlemen we would have 18 plus packs confirmed in a very short time. I know of several ranchers that would go out of their way to make it happen.

[idahohuntr]

WDFW said they turned down the cattlemens trapper was because they didn't want to appear to have favoritism, or appear that their decisions are being swayed by an outside organization.

I can understand that.  I know they took money from CNW to up the wolf poaching reward, but i could see why they would not want a special interest group to have their fingerprints on the data collection efforts. 

If the Cattlemen have very qualified trappers is there a reason those individuals could not apply to WDFW jobs and just be a WDFW employee?  That would seem to resolve the issue if its just a matter of getting the most skilled folks to do the job. 

[wolfbait]

WDFW said they turned down the cattlemens trapper was because they didn't want to appear to have favoritism, or appear that their decisions are being swayed by an outside organization.

I can understand that.  I know they took money from CNW to up the wolf poaching reward, but i could see why they would not want a special interest group to have their fingerprints on the data collection efforts. 

If the Cattlemen have very qualified trappers is there a reason those individuals could not apply to WDFW jobs and just be a WDFW employee?  That would seem to resolve the issue if its just a matter of getting the most skilled folks to do the job. 

Kind of like CNW being at every new wolf pack confirmation? CNW working with WDFW on the range rider program? etc.. No conflict of interest there.

If WDFW won't listen to the people they already have in the field, what makes you think they would listen to someone from the cattlemen working for them?

I'm sure WDFW could get Carter Niemeyer to trap wolves for them if they were really serious about confirming wolf packs. I think I read somewhere that Carter works with WDFW off and on anyway.

WDFW are always saying how the lookout pack is so elusive and they can't catch them, what a joke. What's one more lie from WDFW?

[Special T]

The cattlemen offered to hire a EXPERIENCED trapper of wolves and pay his expenses. The trapper was of the Cattlemens choice and a WDFW agent could follow/ ride with him so that proper documentation could be done.. IE no cooking the books, and so there could be no quesiton about the validity of the information/documentation done.

Those were the condiditons, so if the WDFW wont agree to those then they are not really interested in Pushing for full fast documentation. Excuses like lack of funding are a read herring. The WDFW has been slow playing documentation.

As you your second responce MANY people who have experience with wolves have been told they don't know what they are looking at. I have a firend that lived in Canada and was around wolves. He saw and reported wolves in the 418 nooksack unit. He was told he didn't know what he was looking for and that he saw coyotes. Deragotry reponces by WDFW agents in reponce to sightings some WITH PICTURE PROOF are not the work of people interested in getting to the bottom of the problem.

You can always expect some level of complaining, however when your % of positive to negative is in the single digits there is likely a problem. 

Just because you or some one else say the department has our best intersts at heart does not make it so. Im interested in thier actions, and so for they are lacking.

[Special T]

WDFW said they turned down the cattlemens trapper was because they didn't want to appear to have favoritism, or appear that their decisions are being swayed by an outside organization.

I can understand that.  I know they took money from CNW to up the wolf poaching reward, but i could see why they would not want a special interest group to have their fingerprints on the data collection efforts. 

If the Cattlemen have very qualified trappers is there a reason those individuals could not apply to WDFW jobs and just be a WDFW employee?  That would seem to resolve the issue if its just a matter of getting the most skilled folks to do the job. 

the REAL trappers did not have Bio degrees that is why they couldnt be hired. But like i said they arn't necessary if a WDFW agent could accompany  the trapper.