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Author Topic: Initiatives 594 and 591  (Read 66010 times)

Offline bradslam

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #120 on: August 28, 2014, 02:27:40 PM »
Pianoman I agree that there are a lot of hard core "no gun" advocates out there, but I believe there are a lot more moderates who would like to come up with some solution short of total bans that would keep guns out of the hands of hard core criminals.  I think all of us would, but for the life of me, I honestly don't know of any law that would do that.  Somehow we have to come up with legislation that would appeal to that large segment of moderates who don't want a total ban, but might go that way if given no alternative.  Personally I kind of go with legislation that requires very long term sentences for anyone committing a crime with a gun. The only way I see to keep guns out of the hands of some is to keep them in prison.  In the mean time, the real test is how do we keep from being backed into an all or nothing battle over gun control.  That's kind of what's happened with I 594 and I think we all are pretty sure what the results of that are going to be.  Geeze, I'm beginning to hear more comments about amending the 2nd amendment  and as far fetched as that might seem, nothing surprises me anymore.  We're just preaching to the choir on this forum, it's those moderates out there who are actually willing to listen that we need to get to and work with.

Amen!  Thank you.  That is another thing I advocate.  Spend the money, build the prisons and keep these people locked up!  You would not believe the amount of criminals and crazies that I see in my job that have multiple warrants and are out amongst the general population.  The city I work for also has an unbelievable amount of sexual predators that are released in spite of the fact that they refused treatment while incarcerated.

Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #121 on: August 28, 2014, 03:05:17 PM »
It appears the NRA has decided to help.  As of a few weeks ago it didn't look like they were interested.

https://www.voteno594.com/

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #122 on: August 28, 2014, 03:39:40 PM »
Pianoman I agree that there are a lot of hard core "no gun" advocates out there, but I believe there are a lot more moderates who would like to come up with some solution short of total bans that would keep guns out of the hands of hard core criminals.  I think all of us would, but for the life of me, I honestly don't know of any law that would do that.  Somehow we have to come up with legislation that would appeal to that large segment of moderates who don't want a total ban, but might go that way if given no alternative.  Personally I kind of go with legislation that requires very long term sentences for anyone committing a crime with a gun. The only way I see to keep guns out of the hands of some is to keep them in prison.  In the mean time, the real test is how do we keep from being backed into an all or nothing battle over gun control.  That's kind of what's happened with I 594 and I think we all are pretty sure what the results of that are going to be.  Geeze, I'm beginning to hear more comments about amending the 2nd amendment  and as far fetched as that might seem, nothing surprises me anymore.  We're just preaching to the choir on this forum, it's those moderates out there who are actually willing to listen that we need to get to and work with.

Without somehow magically getting rid of all 300 million guns in this country, you'll never get guns out of the hands of hardcore criminals, ever. Stiffer penalties will deter the less career criminals and keep bad guys put away longer. That's the best solution to gun crime. Hit them where it hurts. But hardcore criminals don't care about laws, ever, ever, ever. That's why they're called criminals. And they dance with glee every time a new law is passed restricting gun ownership because they know that means fewer armed law-abiding citizens. They still have the black market and still have access to guns. We just have fewer options. It's mind-blowingly screwed up to believe that a law, any law, will stop a hardcore criminal from doing exactly what they want. The best we can hope for is to stop them and put them away or kill them. That's it.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline Special T

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #123 on: August 28, 2014, 03:41:31 PM »
I think the only way to change so called "Moderates" is to educate them. They suffer from the do something disease and need to be put on the correct track instead of the wrong one.  :twocents:
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Offline vandeman17

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #124 on: August 28, 2014, 03:43:28 PM »
Pianoman I agree that there are a lot of hard core "no gun" advocates out there, but I believe there are a lot more moderates who would like to come up with some solution short of total bans that would keep guns out of the hands of hard core criminals.  I think all of us would, but for the life of me, I honestly don't know of any law that would do that.  Somehow we have to come up with legislation that would appeal to that large segment of moderates who don't want a total ban, but might go that way if given no alternative.  Personally I kind of go with legislation that requires very long term sentences for anyone committing a crime with a gun. The only way I see to keep guns out of the hands of some is to keep them in prison.  In the mean time, the real test is how do we keep from being backed into an all or nothing battle over gun control.  That's kind of what's happened with I 594 and I think we all are pretty sure what the results of that are going to be.  Geeze, I'm beginning to hear more comments about amending the 2nd amendment  and as far fetched as that might seem, nothing surprises me anymore.  We're just preaching to the choir on this forum, it's those moderates out there who are actually willing to listen that we need to get to and work with.

Without somehow magically getting rid of all 300 million guns in this country, you'll never get guns out of the hands of hardcore criminals, ever. Stiffer penalties will deter the less career criminals and keep bad guys put away longer. That's the best solution to gun crime. Hit them where it hurts. But hardcore criminals don't care about laws, ever, ever, ever. That's why they're called criminals. And they dance with glee every time a new law is passed restricting gun ownership because they know that means fewer armed law-abiding citizens. They still have the black market and still have access to guns. We just have fewer options. It's mind-blowingly screwed up to believe that a law, any law, will stop a hardcore criminal from doing exactly what they want. The best we can hope for is to stop them and put them away or kill them. That's it.

That was EXACTLY what I told my mom in our debate about this last night. She brought up the Sandy Hook guy and asked if I think he would have been able to get a gun to carry out the massacre if his mom didn't have them in the house and I said a definitive "Eff Yes" I told her to tell me what kind of gun she wanted and I could have it for her within a day or two. If someone wants to get a gun, there is absolutely nothing stopping them from getting it but themselves.
" I have hunted almost every day of my life, the rest have been wasted"

Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #125 on: August 28, 2014, 03:55:23 PM »
I think the only way to change so called "Moderates" is to educate them. They suffer from the do something disease and need to be put on the correct track instead of the wrong one.  :twocents:

I get it. I really do. Children are dying in schools and we need to do something, anything we can to stop it. But, they (the moderates and do-gooders and the raving mommies) need to know why children are dying in schools: they're dying because we made schools a safe place for crazies to kill kids by naively passing a law that says no one can carry a gun on school grounds. And, it never once crossed our minds that criminals and crazies would eventually see this as an opportunity. Well, they have finally recognized it as an opportunity, one that they'll continue to exploit until it goes away. A universal background check will not change the fact that this opportunity exists, nor will it diminish it.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline snowpack

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #126 on: August 28, 2014, 04:00:46 PM »
Even if you confiscated all in this country, they'd be pouring back in immediately from smugglers--war left overs, cartel surplus or orders from overseas manufacturers like Norinco, etc. 
There's villages around Pakistan and the Phillipines where guys make functional guns, that look like anything in a store, from scrap steel and hand tools.  Imagine what could be made with the advanced tooling here. 
The Gun Markets of Pakistan
Vice Season 1: Episode 1 Extra - Backyard Gunshop

Offline huntrights

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #127 on: August 28, 2014, 11:03:37 PM »
SANITY CHECK:  :DOH:

Why on earth would any gun owner in Washington State agree to impose stricter gun controls on Washington citizens than exist at the federal level? 

Why would any gun owner that cherishes and respects our rights and freedoms consider voting for gun control laws that are on the slippery slope toward the ominous and authoritarian gun control laws being imposed in California and New York?

Wake up folks.  If we don’t pull together as a unified group of voters, we all lose. 

A respectful request to those that are even remotely considering voting for the anti-gun initiative (I-594) - please reconsider.  Please DO NOT vote away our rights and freedoms just because a few billionaires can afford to spread their anti-gun propaganda to impose their anti-gun ideologies.  People need to realize they are using Washington as a test market for their anti-gun initiatives.  If they can get this garbage to pass here, they will move on to the next state, then the next.  These are NOT pro-Second Amendment people pushing this initiative; they are anti-gun zealots.  Please see through their smoke screens of propaganda and efforts to divide gun owners.

Offline rim_runner

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #128 on: August 29, 2014, 09:48:50 AM »
what is this part about. is there a requirement to have pistols licensed in this state?

Quote
(g) A person who (i) acquired a firearm other than a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the firearm or (ii) acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days. At the end of the sixty-day period, the person must either have lawfully transferred the pistol or must have contacted the department of licensing to notify the department that he or she has possession of the pistol and intends to retain possession of the pistol, in compliance with all federal and state laws.

Offline Curly

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #129 on: August 29, 2014, 09:58:51 AM »
what is this part about. is there a requirement to have pistols licensed in this state?

Quote
(g) A person who (i) acquired a firearm other than a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the firearm or (ii) acquired a pistol by operation of law upon the death of the former owner of the pistol within the preceding sixty days. At the end of the sixty-day period, the person must either have lawfully transferred the pistol or must have contacted the department of licensing to notify the department that he or she has possession of the pistol and intends to retain possession of the pistol, in compliance with all federal and state laws.

 :yeah:  WTH is DOL going to do when you notify them?  :dunno:
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Offline pianoman9701

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #130 on: August 29, 2014, 10:06:30 AM »
So, my wife, in her grief over my death and on top of losing me, becomes a felon because she doesn't do anything with my firearms for two months. And even if she does do something, she now reports those firearms to the Department of Licensing so they can keep track of her and her guns?

This is a really good section to point out to people who say this is a common sense bill. There's nothing common sense about this paragraph. Thanks for highlighting it. I missed that one completely.
"Restricting the rights of law-abiding citizens based on the actions of criminals and madmen will have no positive effect on the future acts of criminals and madmen. It will only serve to reduce individual rights and the very security of our republic." - Pianoman https://linktr.ee/johnlwallace https://valoaneducator.tv/johnwallace-2014743

Offline rim_runner

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #131 on: August 29, 2014, 01:25:54 PM »
Now Bloomberg has donated a $ 1million. A lot of out of state money is being spent on a local law.

Offline woodswalker

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #132 on: August 29, 2014, 01:33:00 PM »
History has its lessons for those who naively beleive that reducing the number of gun will make everything all better.

Read http://westernrifleshooters.wordpress.com/2013/02/20/bracken-democide/, its educational, might be uncomfortable to read and perfectly illustrates what i meant in an earlier post about History. 

See Also the new Islamist Caliphate in the Mideast and their tender treatments of those who dont already believe.  There is video of forced conversions followed by execution anyhow.
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What we have here is...Washington Department of NO Fish and WATCHABLE Wildlife.
 
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Offline sakoshooter

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #133 on: September 19, 2014, 01:37:22 AM »
I'm very worried about this initiative so I contacted the NRA today via email. I mainly stated that WA needed their help and fast.

Reply: Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA. 

 We have full-time lobbyists that work specifically for Washington.  We have election coordinators, campaign field reps, and volunteers on the ground.   We have formed a separate PAC specifically for the defeat of Initiative 594.  We have ad buys that will start appearing very soon, and we have mailings going out informing Washington voters of the dangers of I-594. 
Best Regards,
Alex

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Offline luvmystang67

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Re: Initiatives 594 and 591
« Reply #134 on: September 19, 2014, 08:19:15 AM »
Here's the personal message I received back on 9/9... somewhat similar:

Thank you for contacting the NRA-ILA.

 

We have full-time lobbyists working specifically for Washington.  We have election coordinators, campaign field reps, and volunteers on the ground.   We have formed a separate PAC specifically for the defeat of Initiative 594.  We have ad buys that have already started appearing, and we have mailings going out informing voters of the ballot initiatives.

 

https://www.voteno594.com/

 

For information about what you can do to help, visit https://www.nrapvf.org/take-action/.

 

While I-591 is a good initiative which we hope passes, our full resources are going into defeating I-594.

 

Best Regards,

 

Alex

NRA-ILA Grassroots

800-392-8683

www.NRAILA.org

ILA-Contact@NRAHQ.org

 


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