pick your bull before you hunt

[D-Rock425]

That's kinda what I thought.

[Band]

Wonder if the people that shoot these animals come up with some elaborate story about an amazing stalk or crazy scenario or if they just say "Shot this beast while he was tied to a tree and gorging on grain. It was intense!"

A few years ago a lady I worked with who knew I was a hunter brought in a binder full of incredible trophy animals taken by her husband.  I couldn't believe my eyes, picture after picture of animals I could only dream of.  And then it happened.  I asked where he managed to find such great hunting opportunities.  "Oh, all over the place", she said, "he paid $20,000 for this hunt, $25,000 for this one...".

It was my first experience seeing high fence animals.  I felt like I had been punched in the gut.  She actually thought hubby was a hunter.

[pianoman9701]

What does it matter? Most of us like to scout, hike up the hills, track, work out for months ahead of time, and shoot all year. It's our passion. Some super-busy lawyer wants to spend $25K to walk around the fence for an afternoon, shoot a trophy bull, and hang it on his wall? What do I care? At least he's not marching up and down the sidewalk in front of the WDFW protesting hunting. Rich guys on our side is a good thing. Better us than them.

[RadSav]

I always hear the disgust followed by a dollar sign.  If it was $100.00 would it really make a difference?  Is it just because we hate anyone who makes more, or has more, money than we do? 

I pay around $85.00 to hunt pheasant at the Shillipoo release sight with about 200 other middle class hunters and at least two rich dentists. Is the hunter that works for $10/hr out there on some moral high ground that the doctors are not?  If the WDFW increased the bird permits on these release sights to $10,000 would release site hunting all of the sudden become unethical and the hunters that pay the money moral garbage?  Money would not change the hunt, would it?

If I go to the San Carlos and pay $20,000 to hunt and in the process shoot a 400 class elk.  Is that morally wrong?  It's a huge place, they do not feed these animals, there are no pens or fences where the elk are contained.  Is that any different than someone who draws a Wenaha East tag and kills a 400 bull?  Area is about the same size, animals are just as free to roam, hunting pressure is about the same.  Only real difference is the $20,000 and the steepness of terrain.  Is the hunter who waited 16 years to draw the tag that much better than the guy who worked 30 years in a union job making enough money to go to the San Carlos?

[Band]

What does it matter?

It matters because most of us spend a huge amount of time in preparation and hard work both before, during, and after the hunt in order to challenge ourselves to get an animal.  And with any luck, a true trophy animal.  When we come home empty handed we are still much richer for the experience and lessons learned.  The experience gives us a common bond, a kinship.  And then when someone comes along who has given little thought or effort and then spends an hour picking out a semi-tame animal to kill, what we may have initially thought was a kinship is nothing more than an illusion.

To put it in terms you might identify with, it would be finding out a neighbor who owns the house next to you doesn't work by choice, is living on welfare, and had his house paid for by the government.

[pianoman9701]

What does it matter?

It matters because most of us spend a huge amount of time in preparation and hard work both before, during, and after the hunt in order to challenge ourselves to get an animal.  And with any luck, a true trophy animal.  When we come home empty handed we are still much richer for the experience and lessons learned.  The experience gives us a common bond, a kinship.  And then when someone comes along who has given little thought or effort and then spends an hour picking out a semi-tame animal to kill, what we may have initially thought was a kinship is nothing more than an illusion.

To put it in terms you might identify with, it would be finding out a neighbor who owns the house next to you doesn't work by choice, is living on welfare, and had his house paid for by the government.

No, it's the opposite of welfare. I have to work for my house and he's had his given to him by daddy. I don't care. I doesn't take away from my experience one bit. I don't think you should let it take away from yours, either, Band. You and I both know what memories we get for our animal, trophy or not. We work and it means something to us if and when we succeed. Whatever he gets out of his is his memory, his experience.

[RadSav]

We work and it means something to us if and when we succeed. Whatever he gets out of his is his memory, his experience.

Not sure I have ever seen it worded better

[deerhunter_98520]

I think the whole thing is bout this particular hunt is what kind of memories can you create? Your scouting is sitting behind a computer and picking your bull/buck before you show up and head out into the "enclosure" and walk up to the animal and shoot it....to me it seems like these animals are pretty tame from the few videos I've watched....it would be completely different on a 20k acre ranch...they have room to roam and be "free"....It would be more of a hunt....maybe its because I was raised different and my money means more to me than dropping 20k to shoot a " trophy" to brag about in the office...to each his own but and its cool there hunting and supporting the sport...my hunts start the day after season closes...I start scouting and looking for my trophy, I spend a lot of days in the woods preparing for my hunt  and I think most average hunter are like this...we put it way more work preparing for our hunts...to me its personal satisfaction knowing I put in the time,effort and hard earned money...I'm a teamsters union worker with a family of 4...I'm the only one working at the moment and make a decent living and would have to save  a while to afford one of these hunts and I couldn't justify spending that much coin when I could buy a new truck with it.

[idaho guy]

I dont like the whole canned hunt idea but if that is the way someone wants to hunt more power to them! I would rather have someone hunting behind a fence instead of protesting hunting etc. To each his own. Besides if more hunters go to ranches there is less on the national forest! Rad sav you make that large ranch sound so fun it is tempting! I could see the challenge especially with a bow. But for me I would rather enjoy the whole experience of maybe taking a smaller animail on public land. There is a guy here who hangs up his farm raised mounts in a local restaurant and make his own placques saying "taken by bowhunter/author so and so" and that does pee me off a little since he is using the fenced in mounts to parade around his so called hunting "prowess". I am pretty sure he never went out in the woods without a guide and actually killed something. I really like how I think Rad Sav looks at it -fun experience that can be challenging but a totally different deal then a diy public land hunt. Anyways, I am for anybody legally hunting who cares about how they are doing it.       

[pianoman9701]

I think the whole thing is bout this particular hunt is what kind of memories can you create? Your scouting is sitting behind a computer and picking your bull/buck before you show up and head out into the "enclosure" and walk up to the animal and shoot it....to me it seems like these animals are pretty tame from the few videos I've watched....it would be completely different on a 20k acre ranch...they have room to roam and be "free"....It would be more of a hunt....maybe its because I was raised different and my money means more to me than dropping 20k to shoot a " trophy" to brag about in the office...to each his own but and its cool there hunting and supporting the sport...my hunts start the day after season closes...I start scouting and looking for my trophy, I spend a lot of days in the woods preparing for my hunt  and I think most average hunter are like this...we put it way more work preparing for our hunts...to me its personal satisfaction knowing I put in the time,effort and hard earned money...I'm a teamsters union worker with a family of 4...I'm the only one working at the moment and make a decent living and would have to save  a while to afford one of these hunts and I couldn't justify spending that much coin when I could buy a new truck with it.

I think that's the point: It doesn't matter what it would mean to you and me because it's not our cup of tea; we wouldn't do it regardless of how much money we had. It only matters what it means to him. Of course we wouldn't spend $25K on this type of harvest, for all the reasons we've already discussed. But he will. He's not going to spend the days scouting that we spend. He's not going to train in the gym just for hunting. He's not going to do it with a bow because it's the hard way. He gets to hang the head on his wall, probably next to a zebra or a kudu shot the same way, and tell people how he conquered the great Northwest wilderness and took this trophy bull. I don't care. I care that he thinks he's a hunter and relates to hunting and guns more than he relates to anti-hunting and gun control. I takes absolutely nothing away from my experience or love of my sport.

[Stein]

It's different, not better or worse in my mind.

If I have a private ranch with 300 head of elk wintering and for a hefty fee I drive you up to the ridge and you pop a "free range" elk, is that really the same thing as hitting one 25 miles into the wilderness?  If you haul your wilderness elk out with pack animals is that the same as if I haul it out on my back?  What about guided vs. DIY?

Everyone is in the game for a different reason.  For me, it is all about free range public land DIY but that is my choice (and budget).  Whatever floats your boat is what you should pursue.

[idaho guy]

Everyone is in the game for a different reason.  For me, it is all about free range public land DIY but that is my choice (and budget).  Whatever floats your boat is what you should pursue.
[/quote]



 
I have considered having my kids do a buffallo hunt but havent been able to pull the trigger on it. my kids are all pretty young so it would be fun for them. Right now we are putting in for the montana permits(i dont know if that would be any more challenging than the larger ranches) but I would feel better about if for some reason. I want to eventually mount all the north american big game animails and this one could be hard to ever draw and hunt outside the fence.

[Stein]

Yeah, I parted with $50 myself.  If I could draw one, that would be it.