Will WDFW finally confirm more wolf packs in the Methow Valley?

[WAcoyotehunter]

At that point they would be downlisted.  We are getting there... I suspect the WDFW will find a couple additional breeding pairs this year, then they have to document the pup survival... we are a few years down the road I would guess.  Even when they are delisted, it's going to be a huge battle to get hunting on the landscape.  The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come.

[wolfbait]

At that point they would be downlisted.  We are getting there... I suspect the WDFW will find a couple additional breeding pairs this year, then they have to document the pup survival... we are a few years down the road I would guess.  Even when they are delisted, it's going to be a huge battle to get hunting on the landscape.  The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come.

"The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come."

Especially when folks find out how most of the wolves really ended up in WA! I wonder how they will spin that little bit of info?

[WAcoyotehunter]

  :beatdeadhorse:it always comes back to that when you enter the conversation...

[GameHunter1959]

At that point they would be downlisted.  We are getting there... I suspect the WDFW will find a couple additional breeding pairs this year, then they have to document the pup survival... we are a few years down the road I would guess.  Even when they are delisted, it's going to be a huge battle to get hunting on the landscape.  The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come.

"The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come."

Especially when folks find out how most of the wolves really ended up in WA! I wonder how they will spin that little bit of info?

I'm not looking for an argument; just an honest question...

How do you figure the folks are going to find out, what you beleive to be the truth of how wolves ended up in WA?

IMO- What would it matter if what you call the truth came out? All they would do is deny it. Seems like a he said she said debate. Do you agree?

[wolfbait]

At that point they would be downlisted.  We are getting there... I suspect the WDFW will find a couple additional breeding pairs this year, then they have to document the pup survival... we are a few years down the road I would guess.  Even when they are delisted, it's going to be a huge battle to get hunting on the landscape.  The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come.

"The WDFW better have it's stuff together for the lawsuits that are sure to come."

Especially when folks find out how most of the wolves really ended up in WA! I wonder how they will spin that little bit of info?

I'm not looking for an argument; just an honest question...

How do you figure the folks are going to find out, what you beleive to be the truth of how wolves ended up in WA?

IMO- What would it matter if what you call the truth came out? All they would do is deny it. Seems like a he said she said debate. Do you agree?

I think it matters because it will show that WDFW hurt the state of WA on purpose, by introducing wolves and then pretending they were migrating from Canada or? Uncontrolled wolves will negatively affect everyone in WA state in one way or another. WDFW are dragging delisting out as long as they can, some of the questions will be: knowing what has happened in ID, MT, and Idaho, why did WDFW release wolves in WA and pretend they weren't there, why didn't WDFW confirm wolves as they released them, why didn't they collar all of the wolves they released, why did they release wolves in cattle country> if you will notice the only time WDFW are forced to confirm wolf packs is when WDFW confirm wolf killed livestock or the wolves are hanging at a school bus stop and reported to the WSP, such as happened in 2008 with the lookout pack. Wolves have a negative affect on rural economies, ask the folks in ID, MT, and Wyoming, I'm sure the people who's businesses were or are being hurt by WDFW's releasing of wolves will have several questions also.

At this point WDFW have been caught several times releasing wolves in WA, and they deny it when ask and run with their naturally migration BS. I think within the next two years there will be an investigation of WDFW, specifically about where WA's wolves came from and the end results won't be the wolves migrated from some place in Canada, Alberta British Columbia or Idaho.

[AspenBud]

At this point if you put whether wolves should be in Washington or not to a state wide vote the outcome would likely be in the affirmative. Even if WDFW did release them, which I don't believe, they would be safe. That's also another reason why such conspiracy theories are a waste of time.

The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense.

[timberfaller]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

Thats all fine and dandy, IF its good enough for US who have to live next to them, THEN "city dwellers" need to have some close by also

ALL housing developments need to have at least one breeding pair within a 100 yds of the the main entrances.

Sounds like a plan to me!!  

[pianoman9701]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

So that's scientific wildlife management, what some patchouli oil store owner in Seattle thinks should happen in the Methow? Sometimes the feces that comes out of your mouth amazes me. I'm sure the majority of the population of King and Pierce Co.s could be convinced by you wolf lovers that we need four different species of wolves for biological diversity. You could probably also convince them that polar bears are endangered in WA. That doesn't mean it makes any wildlife management sense whatsoever. The majority of the public believe the crap that you and the HSUS put on the TV. They do no research and they're willing to cast a vote based on no facts. That's why wildlife management is supposed to be in the hands of biologists and game management officers.

[AspenBud]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

So that's scientific wildlife management, what some patchouli oil store owner in Seattle thinks should happen in the Methow? Sometimes the feces that comes out of your mouth amazes me. I'm sure the majority of the population of King and Pierce Co.s could be convinced by you wolf lovers that we need four different species of wolves for biological diversity. You could probably also convince them that polar bears are endangered in WA. That doesn't mean it makes any wildlife management sense whatsoever. The majority of the public believe the crap that you and the HSUS put on the TV. They do no research and they're willing to cast a vote based on no facts. That's why wildlife management is supposed to be in the hands of biologists and game management officers.

You can splutter about it all you want, but public land is public land. That state or national forest that's next to you belongs just as much to someone in Seattle as it does to you and, electoral college aside, this is not a minority rules country.

I'm not saying people that have to live with wolves don't have a valid gripe that needs to be made to those who don't. But at the end of the day the majority of the public gets what the majority wants, right or wrong, like it or not.

I do however agree that wildlife management decisions should be left to biologists and wildlife managers. I was just making the point that if you brought it to a vote, the outcome would most likely not be favorable for those opposed to wolves. People would most likely be indifferent to whether they were released or not, which again is why the whole "were wolves released illegally" discussion is a waste of time.

[Alchase]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

So that's scientific wildlife management, what some patchouli oil store owner in Seattle thinks should happen in the Methow? Sometimes the feces that comes out of your mouth amazes me. I'm sure the majority of the population of King and Pierce Co.s could be convinced by you wolf lovers that we need four different species of wolves for biological diversity. You could probably also convince them that polar bears are endangered in WA. That doesn't mean it makes any wildlife management sense whatsoever. The majority of the public believe the crap that you and the HSUS put on the TV. They do no research and they're willing to cast a vote based on no facts. That's why wildlife management is supposed to be in the hands of biologists and game management officers.

pianoman9701,
the way I read that was, just like the way the vote banning hound hunting as an example, the total population of people who vote like the "patchouli oil" crown of Seattle, Vashon Island, etc...
out number the rest of us 2 to 1 in this state.
So spending time "infighting" is not to our benefit.

I could be wrong, it has been known to happen on occasion, LOL

[AspenBud]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

So that's scientific wildlife management, what some patchouli oil store owner in Seattle thinks should happen in the Methow? Sometimes the feces that comes out of your mouth amazes me. I'm sure the majority of the population of King and Pierce Co.s could be convinced by you wolf lovers that we need four different species of wolves for biological diversity. You could probably also convince them that polar bears are endangered in WA. That doesn't mean it makes any wildlife management sense whatsoever. The majority of the public believe the crap that you and the HSUS put on the TV. They do no research and they're willing to cast a vote based on no facts. That's why wildlife management is supposed to be in the hands of biologists and game management officers.

pianoman9701,
the way I read that was, just like the way the vote banning hound hunting as an example, the total population of people who vote like the "patchouli oil" crown of Seattle, Vashon Island, etc...
out number the rest of us 2 to 1 in this state.
So spending time "infighting" is not to our benefit.

I could be wrong, it has been known to happen on occasion, LOL

 

[pianoman9701]

I don't care what most of the public think they want. That has nothing to do with game management. They have no idea of what management goals are or why the bios do what they do. Most aren't even aware there are bios in the field. With regards to game management, most of the public are ignorant idiots. And you and your ilk feed on that, and it's wrong. You show them pretty pictures of wolf pups while farmer Joe loses his living and we lose our ungulates.

You talk and talk about what good wolves are for the ecosystem and how we need them and that proper management was applied to allow them back in, and then you throw all of that out the window to support public opinion instead of wildlife management to manage the wolves. You have zero integrity. You're a shill for the anti-hunting crowd who wants to use wolves to end our sport and heritage.

[pianoman9701]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

So that's scientific wildlife management, what some patchouli oil store owner in Seattle thinks should happen in the Methow? Sometimes the feces that comes out of your mouth amazes me. I'm sure the majority of the population of King and Pierce Co.s could be convinced by you wolf lovers that we need four different species of wolves for biological diversity. You could probably also convince them that polar bears are endangered in WA. That doesn't mean it makes any wildlife management sense whatsoever. The majority of the public believe the crap that you and the HSUS put on the TV. They do no research and they're willing to cast a vote based on no facts. That's why wildlife management is supposed to be in the hands of biologists and game management officers.

pianoman9701,
the way I read that was, just like the way the vote banning hound hunting as an example, the total population of people who vote like the "patchouli oil" crown of Seattle, Vashon Island, etc...
out number the rest of us 2 to 1 in this state.
So spending time "infighting" is not to our benefit.

I could be wrong, it has been known to happen on occasion, LOL

"In-fighting" would imply that Aspen is part of our group. He isn't.

[idahohuntr]

"The wolves are here and right or wrong the majority of the public arguably wants them. State and national forests belong to everyone so it doesn't really matter what people living next to them think. The focus should be on getting management of them in place, not this nonsense."

So that's scientific wildlife management, what some patchouli oil store owner in Seattle thinks should happen in the Methow? Sometimes the feces that comes out of your mouth amazes me. I'm sure the majority of the population of King and Pierce Co.s could be convinced by you wolf lovers that we need four different species of wolves for biological diversity. You could probably also convince them that polar bears are endangered in WA. That doesn't mean it makes any wildlife management sense whatsoever. The majority of the public believe the crap that you and the HSUS put on the TV. They do no research and they're willing to cast a vote based on no facts. That's why wildlife management is supposed to be in the hands of biologists and game management officers.

A large part of managing wildlife is managing to the publics desires.  That is why we have to be intelligent in our discussions of wolf management and not spout conspiracy lies that turn voters away from the idea that we can hunt ethically and conserve all of Washingtons wildlife.  So, yes, like it or not (and most rural citizens do not) the guy in Seattle's vote counts just as much as the guy in the Methow.  Public resources are public...end of discussion.

[idahohuntr]

I don't care what most of the public think they want. That has nothing to do with game management. They have no idea of what management goals are or why the bios do what they do. Most aren't even aware there are bios in the field. With regards to game management, most of the public are ignorant idiots. And you and your ilk feed on that, and it's wrong. You show them pretty pictures of wolf pups while farmer Joe loses his living and we lose our ungulates.

You talk and talk about what good wolves are for the ecosystem and how we need them and that proper management was applied to allow them back in, and then you throw all of that out the window to support public opinion instead of wildlife management to manage the wolves. You have zero integrity. You're a shill for the anti-hunting crowd who wants to use wolves to end our sport and heritage.

Piano- please go read about the North American Model of Wildlife Management.  The public decides how their resources should be managed, and that sets the stage for how professional biologists manage the public's wildlife resources.  It is unfortunate you continue to make personal attacks against Aspen who is indeed a hunter from my understanding.  Seriously, please go read up on the NAMWC...it is the greatest system of game management in the world.