Of Roosevelt Elk, Bacteria, Hooves and Herbicides

[t6]

Is independent .... Anne Faribrother ?  Really?  Thats a joke right? 

Exponent represents the Chemical Company that manufactures Atrazine and probably other suspected chemicals. 

Really?  Who are you kidding?

[jongosch]

Your question about deer was asked to Dr. Mora at the TAG meeting in Vancouver.  His reply: Some of them do have it.  He lives in Skamokawa and had to stop his car for a deer limping across the highway recently.  Now, why is it more prevalent in elk than deer?  It may have something to do with the fact that the elk are putting a great deal more weight on their affected limbs than the deer.  It may also have to do with the fact that diseases and toxins manifest themselves differently in different species.  The TAG experts said as much in Vancouver.  You can't just say that because something affects sheep a certain way it must necessarily affect a cow in a similar fashion and so on when comparing any two species.  Finally, nobody's going to know anything for certain until WDFW conducts a honest study. 

Your quote: "...its not just limited to SW Wa I'm sure."

I'm sure too.

[idahohuntr]

They have tested for leptospirosis...it is usually found in the kidney, urine, reproductive tract...and it has not been found in any of the elk with hoof disease.  Further, Leptospirosis is common around the world...it has NEVER been associated with any hoof disease.  EVER.  Maybe a retired county health director from North Carolina who studied leptospirosis disease in the 1970s is not as credible as 15 independent experts and veterinarians and wildlife professionals in Washington 

Testing for toxins is different than addressing hoof disease IMO.  Especially herbicides...which are designed and tested to attack plants, not animals.  Not saying there are not toxins in the environment...but are they at unsafe levels in Wa state or other states?  I think deer and elk are as safe to eat or safer than most beef or fish if you want to talk toxins and chemicals...I still eat all of it.    The foodbank still accepts wdfw euthanized elk for hoof rot samples. 

[idahohuntr]

Your question about deer was asked to Dr. Mora at the TAG meeting in Vancouver.  His reply: Some of them do have it.  He lives in Skamokawa and had to stop his car for a deer limping across the highway recently.  Now, why is it more prevalent in elk than deer?  It may have something to do with the fact that the elk are putting a great deal more weight on their affected limbs than the deer.  It may also have to do with the fact that diseases and toxins manifest themselves differently in different species.  The TAG experts said as much in Vancouver.  You can't just say that because something affects sheep a certain way it must necessarily affect a cow in a similar fashion and so on when comparing any two species.  Finally, nobody's going to know anything for certain until WDFW conducts a honest study. 

Your quote: "...its not just limited to SW Wa I'm sure."

I'm sure too.

I hope your kidding about using one observation of a deer limping across a highway by a Dr. seeking his 5 minutes of fame whose story changes depending on which meeting he is at as evidence hoof disease is in deer too?

[idahohuntr]

I'll support any organization that is willing to help with the hoof disease issue. I don't care if it's the RMEF, the Sierra Club, Conservation Northwest, Defenders of Wildlife, or the HSUS.

Will you support wdfw in their effort to address this issue? Or do you believe they are in the timber companies pocket?

[bbarnes]

Idaho hunter do you work for the WDFW,if so be honest.Yes I believe we have a very,complexed problem here. We have the WDFW who has led all of us to believe ,that the TAG group has been in constant contact with each other,NOT THE CASE.I do believe there all smart people,but this is a non paid hobby to these group members.We need action not words in this situation, do you live and hunt this area?Look at the teams of people and money spent,on the WOLVES by WDFW.Why not the toxins spayed on timber lands,theres enough science to look in that direction.The TREPONEMA theory not going to fly,it's the easy way out for the WDFW.There  trying to play us for fools there's been to many we think we've found what it is.Bottom line is the WDFW credibility is finished with most hunters and some employees off WDFW.Just the fact there still selling hunting licenses to hunters,to hunt these sick elk is criminal by itself.Then trying to sell the public on we need to KILL THESE INFECTED ELK,when they have told us there safe to eat BS.The WDFW has no plan,no leader ship,and soon to have no budget, with hunters not buying tags.One things for sure the current plan of doing nothing and leading the tax payer on has gone on long enough.

[bbarnes]

Deer have hoof rot they transported them to the wildlife refuge in Ridge field  Washington ask the USFW.

[bobcat]

I'll support any organization that is willing to help with the hoof disease issue. I don't care if it's the RMEF, the Sierra Club, Conservation Northwest, Defenders of Wildlife, or the HSUS.

Will you support wdfw in their effort to address this issue? Or do you believe they are in the timber companies pocket?

Of course I will support them, why wouldn't I? As for them being in the timber companies' pocket, I don't know. That's why it would be nice to have other organizations with this issue on their radar as well.

[jongosch]

They have tested for leptospirosis...it is usually found in the kidney, urine, reproductive tract...and it has not been found in any of the elk with hoof disease.

You're entitled to your opinion, idahohuntr, but you don't get to misrepresent the truth.  Leptospirosis was detected in the kidneys of at least four elk by Dr. Tom Besser from WSU.  That information can be found on WDFW's website.  Only 6 of the more than 200 Leptospira serovars were even tested.  Do your homework.

[t6]

Idaho, you've made a habit of calling people names when they have been critical of WDFW. 

Denial and name calling isn't cutting it anymore.  We want HONESTY and answers. 

[idahohuntr]

Idaho hunter do you work for the WDFW,if so be honest.Yes I believe we have a very,complexed problem here. We have the WDFW who has led all of us to believe ,that the TAG group has been in constant contact with each other,NOT THE CASE.I do believe there all smart people,but this is a non paid hobby to these group members.We need action not words in this situation, do you live and hunt this area?Look at the teams of people and money spent,on the WOLVES by WDFW.Why not the toxins spayed on timber lands,theres enough science to look in that direction.The TREPONEMA theory not going to fly,it's the easy way out for the WDFW.There  trying to play us for fools there's been to many we think we've found what it is.Bottom line is the WDFW credibility is finished with most hunters and some employees off WDFW.Just the fact there still selling hunting licenses to hunters,to hunt these sick elk is criminal by itself.Then trying to sell the public on we need to KILL THESE INFECTED ELK,when they have told us there safe to eat BS.The WDFW has no plan,no leader ship,and soon to have no budget, with hunters not buying tags.One things for sure the current plan of doing nothing and leading the tax payer on has gone on long enough.

I do not work for WDFW. None of my friends or family work for WDFW.  I have no connection to WDFW...and I don't follow the herd over the cliff when it comes to mindlessly attacking them.  WDFW wants to solve this problem.  I have no doubt your interests in solving this problem are sincere.  I believe you care deeply about this issue...I think the disingenous promise of some psuedo-experts has led many well meaning sportsmen a stray.  If you could get even a few of the independent panel of experts to speak up and provide evidence that wdfw is not interested in solving this problem...I will listen.  This is an unfortunate situation, and I am disappointed that some feel it necessary to attack WDFW.  It will not solve the problem. 

[idahohuntr]

I'll support any organization that is willing to help with the hoof disease issue. I don't care if it's the RMEF, the Sierra Club, Conservation Northwest, Defenders of Wildlife, or the HSUS.

Will you support wdfw in their effort to address this issue? Or do you believe they are in the timber companies pocket?

Of course I will support them, why wouldn't I? As for them being in the timber companies' pocket, I don't know. That's why it would be nice to have other organizations with this issue on their radar as well.

Good to hear...those weren't leading questions.  I know you to be fairly level headed on the issues and so I was merely interested in your perspective.  Mine is that wdfw is not trying to cover up timber company conspiracies.

[idahohuntr]

They have tested for leptospirosis...it is usually found in the kidney, urine, reproductive tract...and it has not been found in any of the elk with hoof disease.

You're entitled to your opinion, idahohuntr, but you don't get to misrepresent the truth.  Leptospirosis was detected in the kidneys of at least four elk by Dr. Tom Besser from WSU.  That information can be found on WDFW's website.  Only 6 of the more than 200 Leptospira serovars were even tested.  Do your homework.

Sorry, that was unintentional...Does Dr. Besser believe Leptospirosis is the cause of hoof disease? NO.  Is my statement that the worldwide prevalent and well studied leptospirosis HAVING NEVER BEEN ASSOCIATED WITH HOOF DISEASE!!! still accurate?  I believe so.

[t6]

Idaho... you say your not affiliated with WDFW in any way however in another thread it was mentioned you may be a member of the GMAC.  Is that the case? 

Isn't the GMAC associated with WDFW?

[idahohuntr]

Idaho... you say your not affiliated with WDFW in any way however in another thread it was mentioned you may be a member of the GMAC.  Is that the case? 

Isn't the GMAC associated with WDFW?

Yes, I am a volunteer on an advisory board to WDFW.  Its where I heard Dr. Mansfields presentation.  I've posted summaries of our meetings for a couple years now.