broadheads not grouping?

[snarkybull]

with all due props to Radsav, I will try (at least momentarily) shooting broadheads without aligning the blades this season  (which means a week before labor day).

but dayum, speaking as a mortal dude and a weekend shooter (when I have the time) I am totally ok with a slightly out of tune bow, as long as the broadhead tipped arrow hits where I want it to hit.  so if i have to adjust my sight an inch high and 2 to the right at 50 yards when i put broadheads on?  yeah, my bow is not tuned perfectly.  but i'll kill that mofo.

[RadSav]

but dayum, speaking as a mortal dude and a weekend shooter (when I have the time) I am totally ok with a slightly out of tune bow, as long as the broadhead tipped arrow hits where I want it to hit.  so if i have to adjust my sight an inch high and 2 to the right at 50 yards when i put broadheads on?  yeah, my bow is not tuned perfectly.

If that is all you are off at 50 yards I would consider your bow dang near tuned!  That could be nothing more than a slight spine issue and have nothing at all to do with your bow.

I believe the OP was talking about "getting pretty spastic flight" and the "tail whipping" quite a bit.  I think that is quite a bit different than 1" high and 2" right at 50 yards.  Most of the guys I've hunted with in the past wouldn't even notice if their broadheads shot that much off at 50 yards.  Heck, I've had years when I wouldn't have noticed either

As Larry Potterfield would say, "That looks pretty good!" 

[RG]

More often than not I've found arrow spine to be a problem with broad heads.  My rule of thumb is go stiffer thàn recommended on hunting arrows. The vanes can correct field point tips when the shaft overflexes leaving the bow.  Broad heads are like vanes in the tip so they steer some too and it takes longer for the vanes to correct the arrow flight. Thus the off line travel. Watch a slow mo video of arrows leaving a bow. Tune must be almost exact as well for the same reason.

[4fletch]

If your insets are glued and can t shorten your arrows u may think about useing flat washers

[snarkybull]

I believe the OP was talking about...

The thread got hijacked!?!? wow 

The vanes in those pics look straight.  not even offset.  have we covered this point yet before the hijacking of the hijacked thread?

[RadSav]

I wouldn't call this a hijacked thread!  More of a detoured thread.   No one ever blamed me for getting from point "A" to point "B" in a straight line

Fletching was covered indirectly, but you make a good point!  IMO there is not nearly enough attention given to offset and helical in most broadhead flight threads.  Especially when dealing with longer range broadhead flight as was first mentioned by the OP.  A good helical or heavy offset can reduce the effect a slight weakness of spine can have on flight.  It also helps a great deal if FOC is in a marginal zone.  And in true long range shooting it reduces the instability during energy transition at the apex of the parabolic curve.

I understand the need for straight or only slight offset on mass produced, machine fletched arrows.  But I am always shocked when pro-shops fletch in a similar manner.  Pro-shop or custom fletched arrows should be a noticeable step above machine fletched arrows IMO.  That's why a customer pays the additional money for those arrows.  Sure a guy can choose his colors, but it takes no more effort to fletch a better arrow than it does to fletch a minimal offset arrow once you are in a manual mode of operation.  I personally only own one single straight clamp.  And that clamp is used for cleaning Flex-Fletch vanes.  I've never fletched a single arrow with it!

[snarkybull]

Am I the only one who finds it amusing that we've been yabbering for a couple days about how the spin is going to affect his arrow flight, when his arrows aren't spinning?  Easy fix.  Re-fletch them.  Get a jig and do it yourself.  Or get shrinkwraps, they're super easy.

and then we'll talk tuning til your head explodes 

[RadSav]

The cart is best used behind the horse IMO!

Curiosity was killing this cat!  So I had to download the picture into my CAD program.  Looks like there is a 1.5 degree offset   

[snarkybull]

It was really hard to have certainty from those pics, but I still could have waited for the OP to chime in.

[HighCountryHunter88]

Chime in on what? The fletching? They are factory they say gold tip on them, I'm reading and trying to learn. I don't write much one the weekends because I'm stuck using a phone . I'm taking it up tomorrow to see if xxx can help me out.

[Johnb317]

Don't forget to fill us in on what the fix was! 

[snarkybull]

sorry, didn't mean to confuse you.  I was just gonna wait for you to tell us about the fletching (whether it was straight, and it is), but Radsav spoiled Christmas and told us all early .

So, moving forward, I would personally advise one of these http://www.eders.com/product.php?productid=166871&gclid=CKyAuKeo9r8CFQGMaQodbLUAiw  along with some of these http://www.eders.com/products/1-nap-quik-spin-st-vanes-bone-collector-vanes-combo-pack.html and something along these lines http://www.eders.com/products/aaecavalier-fastset-gel-nock-and-vane-adhesive.html

you will save money in the long run by buying bare shafts and by not paying somebody to fletch your arrows for you.  And the 6 degrees of helical will make your broadhead tipped arrows spin faster and therefore be more accurate with better grouping, especially noticeable at longer distances.

[lamrith]

you will save money in the long run by buying bare shafts and by not paying somebody to fletch your arrows for you.  And the 6 degrees of helical will make your broadhead tipped arrows spin faster and therefore be more accurate with better grouping, especially noticeable at longer distances.

6deg?  Do you mean 3deg?  The EZ fletch I have not heard of offering a 6, only the normal and the RH 3deg helical.  Depending on his rest type I have heard it is not recommended to go past 3* if using a WB rest.

THANKS SAID, GET AN EZ FLETCH, they are super easy to use.  I went with blazer vanes.  Lots of places have them, but I found ebay was the most economical.  lower price AND free shipping, only on their ebay stuff though, direct website has shipping...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/131226454252?_trksid=p2059210.m2749.l2649&var=430484856892&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Come Get Some]

If the arrow spine is correct, you definately have a tuning issue. Simple to fix.
 Try walk back tuning. I just set up a carbon element for my son. 29" 72#, 371 acc w/ 100 Gr shuttle T
 
    5 arrows and I was in the dot at 60 with broadheads. It is fool proof. Forget the paper. It is only a starting point.

  Make sure you hit very close to where you aim at 20 yds. Shoot an arrow at a blank bale, WALK BACK to 30 yds, shoot at the first arrow with your 20 yd pin. Since you walked back 10 more yds Your arrow should drop lower than the first shot. If you feel you made a good shot and the arrow shot slightly left move your rest slightly to the right and visa versa for a right impact. I do mean SLIGHTLY move the rest. a 64th of an inch will make a difference. Given that your rest is not set knock high or low. I usually set the rests on all of our bows a skightly knock high. maybe a 1/16" of bubble high. Do all of this with field points. Then progress to broad heads. We all shoot shuttle T broadheads. I screw them on, Do not match the vanes and blades. (4 Fletch For me) shoot them . They all fly well.

[huntnnw]

Lining up blades with vanes will have no impqct whatsoever on flight... unless the head just happens to spin true with it lined up. Can you cut the vanes off of a field tip arrow and shoot a group at 15-20 yards with 3 field tips and the field tip with vames cut off? Then post a pic. If the bare shaft groups with fletched arrows you should be good. If not some tuning is needed.