long range muzzleloader legal in idaho

[idaho guy]

 Is there anyone that makes long range muzzleloaders that would be legal in idaho? we have to have exposed ignintion system when ready to fire -no 209 primers/sabots and must use open sights.When I say long range I probably mean medium but long for a muzzleloader-400 yards     Maybe something with a ladder type peep sight.   

[MtnMuley]

Pretty much the same rules as us here in WA. Good luck finding one or a sight system where shooting 400yds will work effectively.

[idaho guy]

ya 400 is pushing it but I would like to get beyond what I am comfortable shooting my current muzzleloader at which is about 100 maybe 150. I read where people are shooting them400-500 yards but they might not have all the restrictions

[snowpack]

I've heard of some custom builds.  There is still a sizable group around the country that does long range muzzleloader competitions.  I think they use musket caps and use 'F' powder with a little '4F' to compensate for the primer.  They have long barrels and the elevated peeps.  Think they shoot way out...don't hold me to this...but I think 1,000 yds.

[Kazekurt]

It's really hard to ethically shoot an open sites gun at 400 yards.  At that range, it's close to impossible to really tell where your sites are on the animal as they basically block it  out  or cover so much of the animal that you can't be sure exactly where your aiming.  Without optics on top, your eye, not the gun will be your greatest range limiter unless your just hoping to hit the animal somewhere(IMHO).

[birddogdad]

http://www.longrangehunting.com/forums/f32/traditional-lr-muzzle-loader-how-25028/

I would start with chatting here....they might have info you are looking for, however, open sights , that is a looooooong way to kill vs cripple an animal...

[BoomWhop]

400+ is way out there for open sites on a deer or Elk for me as well.  If you find a great setup please share.  I have a blackdiamond .50 XR with a peep site.  I think it can shoot that far with enough punch, but I know I can't see that far with my eyes.  I pulled a Any Bull tag and shot @ 500 rounds out to 200+ yards, i could hit a 14inch by 14 inch pizza box at 200-225 yards 9-10 times consistently.  I did notice when I missed it was by 2-3 feet  It would be cool to see someone skilled enough to shoot a muzzy 1000 yards, I know I don't have the time, money and mostly the patience to shoot that far.

[bobcat]

400 yards is way too far to kill an elk with a muzzleloader, even if you could hit it. Heck that's a long shot for a scoped 30/06. Just my opinion but if you want to shoot 400 yards you need to be hunting the rifle season, not muzzleloader.

[idaho guy]

 Bobcat and kazecurt- Thanks for the ethics lesson on how far I should shoot my weapons. Yes there is a group of people who shoot old school open site muzzleloaders way out there. My freind here in Idaho does the shoots so I will just ask him where to go. I also shoot my 30-378 long range and can shoot it at 1000 yards. I shot my moose last year at 620 yards bedded down in brush and hit him in the heart. One shot dead-was that also WAY too far too shoot?I was glassing from a good distance and I watched a group of 3 guys spook a herd of elk and all shoot repeatedly at the herd at 100 yards-no meat hit the ground but I cant imagine they didnt wound at least one. Was that more ethical than shooting a muzzleloader long range?   If I dont have the knock down to shoot an elk at 400 yards I wont shoot it. I was looking for information thanks to the few who actually did provide some. I should have said longer range than what I currently feel comfortable shooting a muzzleloader which is 100-150 yard with my current set up         

[Sabotloader]

Bobcat and kazecurt- Thanks for the ethics lesson on how far I should shoot my weapons. Yes there is a group of people who shoot old school open site muzzleloaders way out there. My freind here in Idaho does the shoots so I will just ask him where to go. I also shoot my 30-378 long range and can shoot it at 1000 yards. I shot my moose last year at 620 yards bedded down in brush and hit him in the heart. One shot dead-was that also WAY too far too shoot?I was glassing from a good distance and I watched a group of 3 guys spook a herd of elk and all shoot repeatedly at the herd at 100 yards-no meat hit the ground but I cant imagine they didnt wound at least one. Was that more ethical than shooting a muzzleloader long range?   If I dont have the knock down to shoot an elk at 400 yards I wont shoot it. I was looking for information thanks to the few who actually did provide some. I should have said longer range than what I currently feel comfortable shooting a muzzleloader which is 100-150 yard with my current set up         

In your case I think the limiting factor would probably be the sights and the energy considerations not necessarily the rifle.  And if you are expecting to use it in the Pac Northwest you would also have to consider the ignition system.  If you want a truly long distance shooting rifle of the modern variety there two that you might consider on or coming on the market.

The first one might be the Ultimate ML.

http://ultimatefirearms.com/

and the new one being produced by Remington, the Remington Ultimate

http://ultimatemuzzleloader.com/

But, were I interested in this type of rifle - I think I would turn to Jeff Hankins and have him build me one of his creations...  While he builds mostly centerfire rifles he really make a fine ML also.

http://hankinscustomrifles.com/

Might take a look through this thread on Huntingnet

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/black-powder/394060-jeff-hankins-customs-does-again.html

Pretty nice creations that he makes... This one is smokeless but it does not have to be.



And my last thought to throw out there for a 300 yard gun might be a Knight Mountaineer.

http://www.knightrifles.com/muzzleloaders/

[whacker1]

Let us know what you find.  I have had a difficult time finding sights that would help me extend my range beyond 125 yards.  I don't want to extend a long ways, but I would like to practice at 150-200 to make me more confident at the 125 and tighten my group. 

[Sabotloader]

Let us know what you find.  I have had a difficult time finding sights that would help me extend my range beyond 125 yards.  I don't want to extend a long ways, but I would like to practice at 150-200 to make me more confident at the 125 and tighten my group.

I regularly shoot (practice) @ longer ranges out to 200 with a peep sight setup.

This is the setup that I use on the Ultra Lite









The front sight with Williams Fire sight hood...  This little hood makes a big difference in the image you see.  With this combination I feel very comfortable shooting an Elk @ 200 IF the conditions are right.

[whacker1]

I would think that it would be interesting to talk to a gunsmith about custom making a barrel for a Remington or a Knight.

You would be able to change the twist at that point as well as hopefully gain a little more veloicty with the longer barrel.

 If you could extend your Barrel from 26-30 inches.  The profile of the open sights or peep sights, would help you gain the additional accuracy purely by having a greater distance between sights.  I would be interested in a ladder style peep, similar to what the competitive 45-70 guys use.  I would assume that it would take a gun smith to tap and set the rear sight on our modern Remington's / Knights. etc. 

I have thought about making these steps, but haven't gone down that path.  i have also been looking for a hooded front site to match up with my peep on my Remington.  Williams does not make them that will fit my Remington. 

[snowpack]

http://www.dixiegunworks.com/product_info.php?products_id=8297
What would you guys think of this?  Is .45 cal legal in Idaho?  I don't see any larger calibers.

[idaho guy]

Thanks sabotloader  and others that's what I was looking for good info I appreciate it going to call Jeff for sure will report what I find out for longer range muzzleloading.