Free: Contests & Raffles.
You must believe in science. Up until the discovery and mastering of the scientific method, we humans used these causation-type analyses all the time. And we were wrong to do so."I see these two things are happening at the same time in the same place so one must cause the other!" That type of thinking leads to bad science, public hysteria, etc.. This type of article is used solely for the purpose of self-promotion or to move an agenda forward. For every point put forth in the article there is a counter-point.... because there is no science to back it up. Humans did not come this far in advancing our civilization to the point is at today, both technologically and otherwise, by guessing at why things are the way they are.Lastly, to say that there are "so few elk in the woods of southwest Washington" is just flat wrong. Compared to where and when? There are more elk today in southwest Washington than there were in the same locations 100 years ago... 80 years ago.. 60 years ago.. 40 years ago.. NOT 10 years ago. So that means there are "so few elk"? Nowhere in western Oregon will you find densities like you find in the Toutle, Margaret and Coweeman units. I'd say they are thick as fleas... and maybe that's a problem.
What a surprise...more fiction from a professional fiction writer The articles seem to be getting more desperate all the time...now we just need an eco park resort owner to fence a few elk so we can figure this out...oh, and some people saw some odd antlers so that proves that its not limited to hooves...with science like that who needs real data. Seriously, lets leave the fiction writing to the fiction authors...and lets leave the biology and veterinarians to handle the diagnosis and management of the wildlife diseases.
It's funny to me, idahohuntr. You never dispute any of my points. Just more personal attacks. As for my supposed self-promotion, TDN's Outdoors Editor asked me to write that column.Btw, that eco park resort owner just won the primary for Cowlitz County Commissioner and is heading into the general election. And it's more than just a few people who've seen some odd antlers: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,155341.msg2061466.html#msg2061466You'll eat your crow soon enough. Keep on chattering. It keeps me motivated
idahohuntr, I think you are very disrespectful to other members on this forum. These members are trying to make a difference and make aware the issues and you try to discount their efforts and put them down. It amazes me that the moderators allow this to continue. I attended most of the hoof rot meetings in my local area. So many questions were asked to the experts that were not answered. There were great ideas and suggestions from the advisory panel that were brushed off. The supposed science you call it is so narrowly focused there is no way they will figure this out anytime soon. There was not enough emphasis or resources put to this issue years ago. Even now the funds allotted to try to find the answer is not enough. Real science would explore all options. Not just the ones they want to look at or can afford to look at. Please be more respectful and maybe you will get the same in return.
Quote from: jongosch on September 01, 2014, 01:38:34 PMIt's funny to me, idahohuntr. You never dispute any of my points. Just more personal attacks. As for my supposed self-promotion, TDN's Outdoors Editor asked me to write that column.Btw, that eco park resort owner just won the primary for Cowlitz County Commissioner and is heading into the general election. And it's more than just a few people who've seen some odd antlers: http://hunting-washington.com/smf/index.php/topic,155341.msg2061466.html#msg2061466You'll eat your crow soon enough. Keep on chattering. It keeps me motivated I sure hope the owner of Eco park doesn't win the race(which he won't). I can't stand the guy. He is incredibly arrogant and I've seen him freak out over the most red oculus things. It would be bad for cowlitz county to have him as a commissioner. As for the op we just need the wdfw to admit there is a problem and make an actual effort to save our elk herd. Instead they come up with excuses. Everyone at wdfw needs replaced. Management at least.
Quote from: SnakeEyes on September 02, 2014, 11:03:17 AMidahohuntr, I think you are very disrespectful to other members on this forum. These members are trying to make a difference and make aware the issues and you try to discount their efforts and put them down. It amazes me that the moderators allow this to continue. I attended most of the hoof rot meetings in my local area. So many questions were asked to the experts that were not answered. There were great ideas and suggestions from the advisory panel that were brushed off. The supposed science you call it is so narrowly focused there is no way they will figure this out anytime soon. There was not enough emphasis or resources put to this issue years ago. Even now the funds allotted to try to find the answer is not enough. Real science would explore all options. Not just the ones they want to look at or can afford to look at. Please be more respectful and maybe you will get the same in return.That's what he does, snakeeyes. According to him, anyone who disagrees with the WDFW on this issue is making it all up and he'll do his best to sling mud at them, and then claim later it's others who do the slinging. Jon Gosch, Bruce Barnes, Crystal Davies, Dr. Boone Mora, and Ed Barnes have all been working on this for years. It was these people and their pushing that finally got the WDFW off its butt and working on hoof disease. Had these people NOT done what they've done, I believe the WDFW would still be dragging its feet on the issue, if working on it at all. These people are doing the same thing with the spraying issue and trying to get those WDFW associated scientists to look for these chemicals. Eventually, when enough of the public bangs their desks, maybe their "science" will be more well-rounded. So far, they've flat out refused to look for agricultural chemicals.
Quote from: SnakeEyes on September 02, 2014, 11:03:17 AMidahohuntr, I think you are very disrespectful to other members on this forum. These members are trying to make a difference and make aware the issues and you try to discount their efforts and put them down. It amazes me that the moderators allow this to continue. I attended most of the hoof rot meetings in my local area. So many questions were asked to the experts that were not answered. There were great ideas and suggestions from the advisory panel that were brushed off. The supposed science you call it is so narrowly focused there is no way they will figure this out anytime soon. There was not enough emphasis or resources put to this issue years ago. Even now the funds allotted to try to find the answer is not enough. Real science would explore all options. Not just the ones they want to look at or can afford to look at. Please be more respectful and maybe you will get the same in return. Snakeyes- I believe you are disrespectful and condescending on this forum. You are also extremely disrespectful to many hard working public servants and volunteers. It would behoove you and a few others to really look at that last line you wrote if you want to start being the "respect police". You might also want to ponder who has and has not been moderated in these hoof rot threads and how that maybe doesn't fit your little narrative where I am just here attacking these really good people trying to make a difference...
Quote from: idahohuntr on September 02, 2014, 12:43:50 PMQuote from: SnakeEyes on September 02, 2014, 11:03:17 AMidahohuntr, I think you are very disrespectful to other members on this forum. These members are trying to make a difference and make aware the issues and you try to discount their efforts and put them down. It amazes me that the moderators allow this to continue. I attended most of the hoof rot meetings in my local area. So many questions were asked to the experts that were not answered. There were great ideas and suggestions from the advisory panel that were brushed off. The supposed science you call it is so narrowly focused there is no way they will figure this out anytime soon. There was not enough emphasis or resources put to this issue years ago. Even now the funds allotted to try to find the answer is not enough. Real science would explore all options. Not just the ones they want to look at or can afford to look at. Please be more respectful and maybe you will get the same in return. Snakeyes- I believe you are disrespectful and condescending on this forum. You are also extremely disrespectful to many hard working public servants and volunteers. It would behoove you and a few others to really look at that last line you wrote if you want to start being the "respect police". You might also want to ponder who has and has not been moderated in these hoof rot threads and how that maybe doesn't fit your little narrative where I am just here attacking these really good people trying to make a difference... I am not going to play your game. Calling jongosch a liar is very disrespectful. You can play the words any way you want. If I called someone a liar on a private forum I would expect to be banned or moderated. Enough said.
He lies about not having associations with the WDFW and the government when some of us know better.
Making the statement that there are more elk today than 80-100 years ago is ridiculous. Anyone who's done any study of sport and regulated hunting knows that the elk were almost gone 100 years ago due to commercial/market hunters, and it's taken that long to bring them back. A comparison like that is meant to throw off the uninformed. You'll probably have to find another group to fool with that one.
I know exactly where the elk have went, we ate them. They did not die of hoof rot, I saw more dead elk in the winters of 95, 96, by far, than I am seeing now. Here`s the proof, 2,500 cow tags issued in the Mt St Helens area for the last 6 years. That`s 15,000 cow elk killed in 6 years. Many of those years I talked to camps that had a seemingly un-endless supply of tags, 9 cow tags in one camp I remember. No one can quantify how many cows were shot without a tag since it became so common to see people with cow elk harvested. When the hoof rot became the focus I believe many elk were shot by hunters if they showed a limp. Then there`s the over the counter availability and the proximity to Oregon that has went to a nearly state wide draw for elk.
Oh yay, first article comment:"Its obviously time to put and end to this dangerous practice. The Timber and Chemical Companies along with WDFW need to be held accountable when its proven that the Herbicides were the cause of this."Cause? CAUSE?!?! These non-scientific conclusions need to be toned down. It is possible to question the use of chemicals and not come off as an all out environmentalist.
Quote from: pianoman9701 on September 02, 2014, 01:45:27 PMHe lies about not having associations with the WDFW and the government when some of us know better. Piano- You are the liar. I have no more association with WDFW than you do...probably less. I buy fishing/hunting licenses from them and I am a gmac volunteer. But please, if you are telling the truth, back it up with some facts...what association am I lying about? Certainly you do not want to disappoint all these folks and remain quiet on the subject...just what is my association that I have lied about???
Nothing to see here, right? At least the director of the WDFW had the intestinal fortitude and integrity to introduce himself when he posted up a thread a while ago. Anyone hiding behind behind their username and pretending to be something they're not, that's CS. My
