They're Here!!

[mfswallace]

So I had a family friend ask for some info on a spot to bow hunt in the teanaway.  I gave him what info I could including the pics of 2 legal bucks and 2 bears I got on my camera from this spring and early June.  I have seen and know that at least 4-5 bucks have come out of this area (10-12 square miles) each year for the last 8-10 with plenty of up and comers always around.  This year something changed and my cameras(3) didn't catch but a few does after Late June.  I thought this very strange but as I wasn't planning on hunting this area as my primary this year didn't worry about it to much.  I know I have heard about them in the Teanaway and have heard them myself on late night hikes out but sounds like there here in force now... Here is the text I just got from his 4 days of hunting.

Well, Seth, I guess it wasn't meant to be. I got into wolves yesterday. Check out the pic. They were howling and yapping. I saw tons of fresh tracks going up a canyon a couple few or more over from Carlson.  then I heard a howl ahead of me from the bottom of the canyon. I kept going up and saw a ton of tracks again, and then heard a lot of howling and yapping to my right. Seemed to be circling... Despite that, I saw a small bull, a couple of does, and I kicked what I assume was a buck from his bed.  All in all not alot of animal sign except Wolf!!!  MY 11.5 boots show the size of this track, Didn't see the wolves but no doubt about what they were...
 

Guess I need to get in there and hunt for predators with my bear and cougar tag to keep it thinned out as much as possible!!!

[AspenBud]

There has been wolves in the teanaway for years. Just the wdfw doesnt say anything about it.

Who told you that?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/teanaway/

[jackelope]

There has been wolves in the teanaway for years. Just the wdfw doesnt say anything about it.

You need to get your facts straight. There has been a confirmed pack in the teanaway for years. There was even a documentary on tv about them reportedly moving there from the north.

[mfswallace]

Knew they were there but this far south(hwy 970) and in this number, looked to be about 10-12 wolves

[jackelope]

Knew they were there but this far south(hwy 970) and in this number, looked to be about 10-12 wolves

One got hit by a car on 97 last year.

[wolfbait]

There has been wolves in the teanaway for years. Just the wdfw doesnt say anything about it.

You need to get your facts straight. There has been a confirmed pack in the teanaway for years. There was even a documentary on tv about them reportedly moving there from the north.

In a way N-Sporteman does have his facts straight, three years before WDFW confirmed the Teanaway pack, wolves were seen in the Teanaway wearing collars, and of course reported to WDFW.  I think the Teanaway pack was finally confirm because they started killing livestock?

[idahohuntr]

Seeing a wolf somewhere, even one wearing a collar, is very different from confirming the presence of a pack in a particular area.  Wolves are highly migratory and cover large distances...they have probably set foot in most every corner of Washington State...but they do not have established packs everywhere someone may see a wolf. 

[wolfbait]

Seeing a wolf somewhere, even one wearing a collar, is very different from confirming the presence of a pack in a particular area.  Wolves are highly migratory and cover large distances...they have probably set foot in most every corner of Washington State...but they do not have established packs everywhere someone may see a wolf.

Seeing any wolves and reporting them to the USFWS or WDFW won't go anywhere, we have already seen this in the Methow and other parts of WA. People have been told there just aren't any wolves here, or they are hybrids, or coyotes, wild dogs, maybe it was a cougar, anything but wolves. Same with wolf predation on livestock.

It is the perfect example of WDFW and environmentalists slow playing the public and wolf pack confirmation, and now WDFW two weeks later come out with "we shot the "alpha" female, what a joke. But then of course you and a few others on H-W already know this.

There has been wolves in the teanaway for years. Just the wdfw doesnt say anything about it.

You need to get your facts straight. There has been a confirmed pack in the teanaway for years. There was even a documentary on tv about them reportedly moving there from the north.

In a way N-Sporteman does have his facts straight, three years before WDFW confirmed the Teanaway pack, wolves were seen in the Teanaway wearing collars, and of course reported to WDFW.  I think the Teanaway pack was finally confirm because they started killing livestock?

probably. That is the only way the truth will come out about the wolves in other areas like the  little naches, nile, rimrock, and cowiche.

[jackelope]

There has been wolves in the teanaway for years. Just the wdfw doesnt say anything about it.

You need to get your facts straight. There has been a confirmed pack in the teanaway for years. There was even a documentary on tv about them reportedly moving there from the north.

In a way N-Sporteman does have his facts straight, three years before WDFW confirmed the Teanaway pack, wolves were seen in the Teanaway wearing collars, and of course reported to WDFW.  I think the Teanaway pack was finally confirm because they started killing livestock?

In wouldn't disagree with that at all.

[GameHunter1959]

It is the perfect example of WDFW and environmentalists slow playing the public and wolf pack confirmation, and now WDFW two weeks later come out with "we shot the "alpha" female, what a joke. But then of course you and a few others on H-W already know this.

I was told by a biologist from Montana Fish and Game, that killing the alpha male or female is the worst thing you can do. He went on to tell me; once one or both alpha's are dead, members of the pack will become more aggressive and kill more game to try and establish their dominance as the new alpha male or female.

Have any of you heard this, or is it a bunch of BS?

He told me, that Montana encourages wolf hunters to NOT shoot the alpha's.

Again; is this something any of you have heard, or a bunch of BS?

Thanks

[wolfbait]

Lets start out with the term "alpha" which ended up being pure BS. I guess WDFW haven't been keeping up with the latest wolf info., or maybe the old terminology fits their desired outcome.


"Alpha" Wolf?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtFgdwTsbU


From a friend of mine:

I sent the following e-mail to Governor Inslee's office and received a prompt response that the e-mail address to which I sent the e-mail is "not monitored", that I needed to go to http://www.governor.wa.gov/contact/default.asp to leave my comments for the Governor.
 
I am given to understand that the environmental lobby, inside and outside Washington State, has loosed a barrage of correspondence to the Governor, asking him to stop the extermination of the Huckleberry Pack in Stevens County that has turned to killing livestock.
 
If the Governor's office only hears from the environmental lobby, he will act accordingly.  He needs to hear from the other side, as well.
 
Lynn Stuter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
The Honorable Jay Inslee,
 
I am given to understand that the environmental lobby, inside and outside Washington State, is calling on state officials to stop the killing of the Huckleberry Pack that has engaged in depredation of sheep in Stevens County.
 
The Washington Wolf Plan calls for the killing of wolves that engage in such behavior.  These wolves are in Stevens County, eastern half of Washington State, no longer on the endangered species list.
 
I am also given to understand that the environmental lobby is all upset about the shooting of the "alpha" female.  According to L David Mech, whom the environmental lobby holds up as an authority on wolves, the claim of an "alpha" male and female, in a wolf pack, is pure fiction.  For confirmation of this fact, please see L David Mech's deposition, Case 9:08-cv-00056-DWM; Document 37; Filed 05/09/2008.
 
Wolves have a long history, one that is well documented.  That history shows that once wolves turn to killing livestock, they will not stop until killed.  That is the reality of wolves.  Trying to discourage them does not work.  Nor does non-lethal means work.  Wolves kill, that is their instinct and one that is not dissuaded by non-lethal means.
 
The Washington Wolf Plan calls for the elimination of these wolves.  To do otherwise will engender distrust of state officials who made promises they are not keeping.
 
Sincerely,
 
Lynn M Stuter
Stevens County
__________________________


According to the USFWS, once wolves start killing livestock the entire pack must be taken out, including pups. The USFWS discovered this early on when they were in control of Wyoming's wolves, before Wyoming's own wolf plan was finally past.

[wolfbait]

Lets start out with the term "alpha" which ended up being pure BS. I guess WDFW haven't been keeping up with the latest wolf info., or maybe the old terminology fits their desired outcome.


"Alpha" Wolf?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNtFgdwTsbU

David Mech’s Damage Has Been Done – Too Late to Attempt Reconciliation

It seems some readers are agog today over an article discovered to have been published at Daily Kos, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/02/16/1168581/--Science-is-self-correcting-on-Wolves#  discussing supposed errors made in attempts to understand wolf and wildlife science, balance of nature and trophic cascades. At the center of this article is David Mech, father of the Wolf Wars; the man who identifies with wolf studies and the introduction or reintroduction, depending on one’s perspective, of wolves in the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem.
It’s always vengeful bliss to say, “I told you so,” but it’s just as important to understand that Mech’s seeming admission that some things might not have been right, is really no victory for anyone accept David Mech and the environmental hijackers; those destroyers of people’s rights, property destruction and confiscation, and the subjection of citizens to reduced levels of public health and safety.
On examination of certain statements made by Mech, on the surface I can see him saying the things that I have been writing about for several years on the myths of balance of nature and self regulation of the ecosystems.
…..at the very least, scientists now disagree about whether wolf related behaviorally mediated trophic cascades in Yellowstone are really occurring………. At most, that well-publicized claim may not be correct at all.
…..ecologists (and particularly conservation biologists) do seem obsessed to the point of blindness with predator-induced trophic cascades.
Two decades later after observing wolves and moose and whitetail in Minnesota, Mech denounced the “balance of nature” writing in (National Wildlife 23(1):54-59) he said nature “far from always being ‘balanced,’ ratios of wolves and prey animals can fluctuate wildly – and sometimes catastrophically”.
Consider, if you will, what Mech said and the comment made by the author of this piece.
In an interview Mech states that scientific conclusions may “vary from outright dishonesty to not even knowing your bias is getting in the way,”. Because the meme of a trophic cascade in Yellowstone is so embedded in textbooks and popular media, it may never die, even if untrue.(Emboldening added)
It has taken how many decades of wolf study, combined with the numerous “scientific” papers written and distributed by Mech, perhaps walking around with a very large chip on his shoulder, swelling in his pride as being perceived as the wolf expert, approaching godliness in some people’s eyes, to decide to consult other scientists about wolves, or in general, balance of nature and trophic cascades?
It may appear that Mech has reached some scientific epiphany or maybe even remorse, complete with crocodile tears, so why should we be so thrilled at his comments about the dishonesty and corruption of money-starved, agenda-driven scientists who, “vary from outright dishonesty to not even knowing your bias is getting in the way?”

I would have to agree with the author of the article who states that this meme, that is the false idea that has spread throughout the scientific community full of wolf loving, money hungry faux scientists, may never die, is, in fact, the outcome that Mech intended from the beginning.
It’s a bit easier to put up a front indicating wrongdoing when the damage has been done and you’ve achieved the goals intended. Are we then to forgive and forget? I think not. The actions of Mech and many others, those being the products of his own work, i.e. his following, his own “outright dishonesty” and what I believe to be him knowing his own bias, have caused such extreme damage, to not only the scientific community but the loss of other wildlife, the spread of disease and the destruction caused to humanity through his deceitful work to cause division and strife among the people. How does one measure that value and establish accountability? Should we just dismiss it because this man is sticking his big toe in contriteness?
The damage has been done and it probably never will get corrected. The lessons learned here will also not be all good. One would like to think that the scientific community would take a deep breath and reassess this evil approach toward political ends shrouded in spurious science, but unfortunately it will stand as a proving ground in how to make money while lying and cheating the American public, regardless of the potential of damage that can be done. After all, the love of money is the root of all evil.

The U.S. Government, specifically the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, should never have given one man so much power and authority to carry out his work. To do wrong, the result of work going unchecked and unchallenged, some because Mech had the power to disregard information from others, for over 2 decades and THEN step forward indicating that things may have been wrong, isn’t something the American citizens should be so easily willing to accept. There is far more to Mech’s and other’s behavior over the years that goes a bit beyond “oops” and can rightly be described as a criminal enterprise.
As Christians we are taught to forgive, but that doesn’t mean we need forget. We must correct the wrong and seek rightful justice for the actions that go beyond scientific error. The American people will never get back into the scientific literature the truth about wildlife science, balance of nature and trophic cascades. It is my opinion that this “damage” was intentionally planned. It is also my opinion that as David Mech ages, he’s now, without much fear of punitive actions against him, willing to say what he may deem appropriate to save his own skin and play to the side of science and citizens who believed him wrong and corrupt from the beginning. We shouldn’t fall for it.
We should take his words and attach those words to the years of his work and then the task at hand for the activists is to begin a long and difficult task of reeducation. How do you counter the brainwashing being done by the most powerful?

http://tomremington.com/2013/03/04/david-mechs-damage-has-been-done-too-late-to-attempt-reconciliation/#comment-3395

[Bullets_n_Octane]

My buddy and I were up Sasse mountain just seein what was around and spooked a Male wolf at abour 30 yards. He was HUGE, I have seen many wolves in person and in zoos, and this was way bigger. Likely the scariest moment in all my hunting experience. He took off like a bullet, down the ridge and over a far too steep shale hill (more like a cliff). We had seen tracks all morning and were already wondering what we'd find with all the sign around. Deer hair filled scat was everywhere we went in the Teanaway last weekend. from Esmerelda, to Sasse mountain to the Manashtash. Seen nothing but a few does and fawns in 2 weeks of hunting. No good! Season needed ASAP!

[Billdos Uncle]

There has been wolves in the teanaway for years. Just the wdfw doesnt say anything about it.

Who told you that?

http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/packs/teanaway/

There are two confirmed packs in the teanaway! Talked with the owner of owens meats about it because he lives up the teanaway valley and we got a place on the river too...

[Billdos Uncle]

Seeing a wolf somewhere, even one wearing a collar, is very different from confirming the presence of a pack in a particular area.  Wolves are highly migratory and cover large distances...they have probably set foot in most every corner of Washington State...but they do not have established packs everywhere someone may see a wolf.

U crack me up dude hilarious... the WDFW tries to hide it as long as they can... There has been wolves in teanaway and blewett pass for a long time now and the pass is wipeouted u rarely see a deer there now!!! And for teanaway I rarely try to go up the north fork any more because the amount of game is way down but it must be because of hunters I guess!!! even though the numbers were fine before wolves were released!