Rancher: Being forced off private grazing land by wolves is wrong

[bobcat]

I'm not a rancher and don't personally know one.  I do know they have a business and the artificial introduction of wolves costs them money.  They weren't there when they started and now they are - no rancher alive had to deal with them in the past.  The government artificially introduced a cost to their business against their will and without a vote.

That's not true- wolves were here when ranching first started in this state, and it was the ranchers who were responsible for eliminating the wolves in the first place.

[ctwiggs1]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

Well it's hard to call it depredation (i.e. coyotes/crows/etc) because it's more like "protected depredation".  They're essentially forcing the ranchers to help the wolf population sustain itself. 

Again, if the ranchers were allowed to shoot wolves on their property it'd be different.

If the state started a fire that got out of control and killed several sheep then yes, I would be all for them compensating the rancher.

[ctwiggs1]

I'm not a rancher and don't personally know one.  I do know they have a business and the artificial introduction of wolves costs them money.  They weren't there when they started and now they are - no rancher alive had to deal with them in the past.  The government artificially introduced a cost to their business against their will and without a vote.

That's not true- wolves were here when ranching first started in this state, and it was the ranchers who were responsible for eliminating the wolves in the first place.

The ranchers of today were barely alive (if they were) when wolves were around last time though Bobcat.

Typically I align with a lot of your arguments, but I think in this case you're so fed up with the wolf debate that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing?

[Elkaholic daWg]

I'm not a rancher and don't personally know one.  I do know they have a business and the artificial introduction of wolves costs them money.  They weren't there when they started and now they are - no rancher alive had to deal with them in the past.  The government artificially introduced a cost to their business against their will and without a vote.

That's not true- wolves were here when ranching first started in this state, and it was the ranchers who were responsible for eliminating the wolves in the first place.

The ranchers of today were barely alive (if they were) when wolves were around last time though Bobcat.

Typically I align with a lot of your arguments, but I think in this case you're so fed up with the wolf debate that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing?

That and the wolves here at that time were a smaller subspecies than the McKenzies Dumped in the northern Rockies 20 years ago

[idahohuntr]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

Exactly.  Wolves have returned to the landscape and are a factor to consider in your ranching business.  If you don't want to deal with them, don't work in the business or don't ranch where wolves occur.  Otherwise, accept that you live in a democracy and the public resources (wolves) will be managed as the public sees fit; which in this state may well mean that you don't get to ever shoot wolves on sight.

[bearpaw]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

The difference is that government hasn't brought in hail storms and tornados. The government brought in the wolf and is preventing the people from protecting themselves against it. Much different circumstances!

[bearpaw]

I'm not a rancher and don't personally know one.  I do know they have a business and the artificial introduction of wolves costs them money.  They weren't there when they started and now they are - no rancher alive had to deal with them in the past.  The government artificially introduced a cost to their business against their will and without a vote.

That's not true- wolves were here when ranching first started in this state, and it was the ranchers who were responsible for eliminating the wolves in the first place.

The ranchers of today were barely alive (if they were) when wolves were around last time though Bobcat.

Typically I align with a lot of your arguments, but I think in this case you're so fed up with the wolf debate that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

[ctwiggs1]

I'm not a rancher and don't personally know one.  I do know they have a business and the artificial introduction of wolves costs them money.  They weren't there when they started and now they are - no rancher alive had to deal with them in the past.  The government artificially introduced a cost to their business against their will and without a vote.

That's not true- wolves were here when ranching first started in this state, and it was the ranchers who were responsible for eliminating the wolves in the first place.

The ranchers of today were barely alive (if they were) when wolves were around last time though Bobcat.

Typically I align with a lot of your arguments, but I think in this case you're so fed up with the wolf debate that you're just arguing for the sake of arguing?

 

Not all west siders are on the other team bearpaw 

[bobcat]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

The difference is that government hasn't brought in hail storms and tornados. The government brought in the wolf and is preventing the people from protecting themselves against it. Much different circumstances!

Wolves were already here before the introductions in Idaho and other states. Regardless of those introduced wolves, eventually wolves would have become more abundant in this state on their own. So the fact that wolves were released in other states and may have crossed the border into our state is irrelevant. The ranchers would have been forced to deal with them eventually anyway.

[bearpaw]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

The difference is that government hasn't brought in hail storms and tornados. The government brought in the wolf and is preventing the people from protecting themselves against it. Much different circumstances!

Wolves were already here before the introductions in Idaho and other states. Regardless of those introduced wolves, eventually wolves would have become more abundant in this state on their own. So the fact that wolves were released in other states and may have crossed the border into our state is irrelevant. The ranchers would have been forced to deal with them eventually anyway.

Sorry but you are wrong. It was a different wolf and it didn't prey on livestock. Please show us reports of any livestock predation before introduction of the Canadian wolves? When they brought in Canadian wolves they created the current wolf plans and rules against protecting your property. In the past before this big effort to recover wolves the ranchers could protect themselves.

This whole mess was manufactured by government so government should pay. You don't like paying then contact your legislator and tell him to get rid of the wolves!

[idahohuntr]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

The difference is that government hasn't brought in hail storms and tornados. The government brought in the wolf and is preventing the people from protecting themselves against it. Much different circumstances!

Wolves were already here before the introductions in Idaho and other states. Regardless of those introduced wolves, eventually wolves would have become more abundant in this state on their own. So the fact that wolves were released in other states and may have crossed the border into our state is irrelevant. The ranchers would have been forced to deal with them eventually anyway.

Sorry but you are wrong. It was a different wolf and it didn't prey on livestock. Please show us reports of any livestock predation before introduction of the Canadian wolves? When they brought in Canadian wolves they created the current wolf plans and rules against protecting your property. In the past before this big effort to recover wolves the ranchers could protect themselves.

This whole mess was manufactured by government so government should pay. You don't like paying then contact your legislator and tell him to get rid of the wolves!

So, tell me again why ranchers exterminated the wolves in the early 1900's?  I mean, given they obviously never preyed on livestock I guess ranchers just didn't work as hard back then and had lots of free time? 

[bearpaw]

"Your argument is borderline anti-capitalist."

I don't agree. Depredation by wildlife is no different than losses caused by the weather or natural disasters (fires, floods, etc.). Are they also going to hold the government responsible for the loss of an animal caused by the weather?

The difference is that government hasn't brought in hail storms and tornados. The government brought in the wolf and is preventing the people from protecting themselves against it. Much different circumstances!

Wolves were already here before the introductions in Idaho and other states. Regardless of those introduced wolves, eventually wolves would have become more abundant in this state on their own. So the fact that wolves were released in other states and may have crossed the border into our state is irrelevant. The ranchers would have been forced to deal with them eventually anyway.

Sorry but you are wrong. It was a different wolf and it didn't prey on livestock. Please show us reports of any livestock predation before introduction of the Canadian wolves? When they brought in Canadian wolves they created the current wolf plans and rules against protecting your property. In the past before this big effort to recover wolves the ranchers could protect themselves.

This whole mess was manufactured by government so government should pay. You don't like paying then contact your legislator and tell him to get rid of the wolves!

So, tell me again why ranchers exterminated the wolves in the early 1900's?  I mean, given they obviously never preyed on livestock I guess ranchers just didn't work as hard back then and had lots of free time?

My statement stands, please show me proof of livestock losses by wolves in WA/ID/MT/WY from 1950 to 1995?

This wolf problem was created by government by introducing wolves in 1995, until government resolves the problem, government should pay for damages!

[bobcat]

Resolves the "problem?"  The only resolution that would put an end to wolves preying on livestock, is the total elimination of wolves.

[stevemiller]

why dont these ranchers just get insurance?

[KFhunter]

wow

I don't know where to start on this one, other than to say the livestock operator bend over backwards to accommodate WDFW

http://www.biologicaldiversity.org/campaigns/wolves_on_the_west_coast/pdfs/Huckleberry_Pack_ltr_to_WDFW_-_Aug_21_2014.pdf