Rancher: Being forced off private grazing land by wolves is wrong

[KFhunter]

To me it's getting old hearing all the whining from the ranchers, blaming the state when their animals are eaten by wolves. You just can't hold the state responsible for something wild animals do. Wolves have to eat, they're going to eat whatever's available, and in this case it was sheep. Get used to it, it's now just a part of doing business and being a rancher. Be glad you had nearly 100 years without wolves. But now they're back, you want to be a rancher, deal with it and don't expect the state to take care of all your problems.

and then you'll be whining about the prices of meat. When cost of business rises the consumers pay for it. Ranches like this feed our country. They should not be looked at as just a business.

 


I don't know about you but I DO NOT want to be eating beef that's been wading around belly deep in it's own excrement being fed GMO products and shipped in from over seas.   Do you want to eat Chinese beef?   They just came up with a brilliant idea of making their feedlots on the landfills.
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/11/13/chinas-garbage-fed-beef-problem-cattle-graze-in-landfill-until-slaughter/
http://www.businessinsider.com/china-food-scandal-cattle-feed-in-landfill-2011-11
http://www.nytimes.com/cwire/2011/06/01/01climatewire-how-a-chinese-landfill-reduces-emissions-whi-90175.html?pagewanted=all

Oh ya fantastic idea!  Reduces emissions!  YOU want to eat that crap??

What about China buying Smithfield, if you eat a pork product it probably came through Smithfield!  They're huge!  AND they're now Chinese owned!
you want to see how they do cattle wait until you see what their pigs eat....no thanks!


Even our own beef lots are disgusting.   

80% of The USA crops goes to feeding livestock,  by removing livestock off public allotments and off private grazing (as in these 1800 sheep) by using wolves guess what?  Ya, we'll have to convert more and more lands to huge superAG big business.  No thanks!

 

[KFhunter]

I think the point being missed here is that from the 50's to 90's there were only small numbers of wolves that did not run in large packs and did not prey on livestock. Our current situation is a direct result of government introduction and government rules preventing protection of property, thus government should pay as they promised.

I think you are missing the point that this is a democracy and its not 1950 anymore.  The public values its wildlife resources, including wolves, and does not want them reduced to 1950's levels...even if it places a hardship on ranchers.  Those are the facts.  Whether or not its fair...well, lifes not fair.

A country where people can get stuff taken from them without recourse because the public "values" it isn't a democracy.

I don't see anything about that in the definition of Democracy. I do see that the majority rules.

de·moc·ra·cy

1
a :  government by the people; especially :  rule of the majority
b :  a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2
:  a political unit that has a democratic government
3
capitalized :  the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy — C. M. Roberts>
4
:  the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5
:  the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

We are fast heading from a Republic (rule of law) to a democracy (rule of popular vote) -  that's why we have a record of Americans on government handouts and not making a living for themselves.

[bearpaw]

REALITY CHECK: For those who fail to understand, like it or not these are the rules which have been agreed upon!
http://wdfw.wa.gov/conservation/gray_wolf/livestock/compensation.html

Gray Wolf Conservation and Management

Dial 911 to report an emergency
Carnivore Depredation on Livestock
1-877-933-9847
 

Compensation Rules for Depredation Incidents

Sheep, cattle or horses killed or injured by bears, cougars or wolves are eligible for compensation using state funds. Compensation for other animal losses depends on availability of federal or private funds.

The claimant is required to provide documentation that includes the commercial value of the lost livestock, an estimate of the percentage loss of value for the injured livestock, and a completed claim form. State law requires that only claims of $500 or more may be filed with the Department for compensation from state funds.

For confirmed depredations by wolves, the owner will be paid for verified losses on acreages of less than 100 acres. The owner will be paid an amount of twice the verified losses on acreages greater than 100 acres; payment at twice the verified losses assumes that multiple animals are missing.

For depredations caused by wolves that are classified by WDFW as “probable”, the owner will be paid for the verified loss, no matter the acreage size.

The claimant must:

•Notify WDFW within 24 hours of discovery of livestock attack

•Protect the carcass to avoid scavenging and allow investigation to be completed by WDFW or its designee as to the cause of the death or injury

•Request a claim form from WDFW within 10 days of discovery of the loss by contacting Ralf Schreiner, Wildlife Conflict Program Specialist in writing, by phone or via email: 600 Capitol Way North, Olympia, WA 98501-1091, 360-902-2926, Ralf.Schreiner@dfw.wa.gov

•Submit a completed claim form within 60 days of notifying WDFW of the loss; completed form includes a depredation claim eligibility checklist to show proactive measures taken, estimated value of lost or injured livestock, proof of ownership of lost or injured livestock, reporting of any related insurance policies, and signature.

The claimant is responsible for determining the amount and value of livestock lost or injured. WDFW is responsible for determining the cause of the livestock loss. The compensated value of the loss is set by WDFW in consultation with recognized livestock organizations and the state Department of Agriculture.

The claimant will be notified upon completion of WDFW evaluation, and has 60 days to accept or appeal the offer for settlement of the claim. Any disagreements between the claimant and WDFW over the livestock loss value may be settled through an adjudicative proceeding.

[h20hunter]

Dale....how can they get compensated when wolves don't eat livestock....only yotes? What a nightmare....red tape, forms out the ying yang...."sorry but you didn't protect the carcass enough from predation so you are SOL".....

Sorry it was a cat...
Sorry it was a stray dog...
Sorry but it was "unconfirmed"....

I will jump all over anyone that takes a shot at a wolf simply becaus they don't like them but call me a hipocrate but I wouldn't blink an eye at a rancher protecting their stock.

[bearpaw]

Dale....how can they get compensated when wolves don't eat livestock....only yotes? What a nightmare....red tape, forms out the ying yang...."sorry but you didn't protect the carcass enough from predation so you are SOL".....

Sorry it was a cat...
Sorry it was a stray dog...
Sorry but it was "unconfirmed"....

I will jump all over anyone that takes a shot at a wolf simply becaus they don't like them but call me a hipocrate but I wouldn't blink an eye at a rancher protecting their stock.

You are correct WDFW created a lot of wiggle room to escape payment. However, I would rather deal with WDFW than some people who want to refuse payments altogether. Thankfully WDFW is a little more honorable than that. 

[idahohuntr]

that's why we have a record of Americans on government handouts and not making a living for themselves.

Yep, I think we all agree the government handouts need to be reduced!

[wolfbait]

I think the point being missed here is that from the 50's to 90's there were only small numbers of wolves that did not run in large packs and did not prey on livestock. Our current situation is a direct result of government introduction and government rules preventing protection of property, thus government should pay as they promised.

I think you are missing the point that this is a democracy and its not 1950 anymore.  The public values its wildlife resources, including wolves, and does not want them reduced to 1950's levels...even if it places a hardship on ranchers.  Those are the facts.  Whether or not its fair...well, lifes not fair.

A country where people can get stuff taken from them without recourse because the public "values" it isn't a democracy.

The government is taking nothing. Did you mean the wolves? If so, they are called wildlife for a reason- they are "wild" and they go where they want and do what they want.

The "government refuses to allow ranchers etc. to defend their personal property, I would say yes the government is taking.

How would you like it if the government stole the tires off your Subaru every day Bobcat? You could see them out stealing your tires as you peer out from behind your keyboard, you went to them and said, I saw you do it, and the gov said too bad the majority of the people don't like tires. But if you push your Subaru to work we will compensate you for the down hill grades. I bet you wouldn't be jumping up and down with a big smile. But then agin you might, after all it is the gov and you sound like a government man/women?

[wolfbait]

Dale....how can they get compensated when wolves don't eat livestock....only yotes? What a nightmare....red tape, forms out the ying yang...."sorry but you didn't protect the carcass enough from predation so you are SOL".....

Sorry it was a cat...
Sorry it was a stray dog...
Sorry but it was "unconfirmed"....

I will jump all over anyone that takes a shot at a wolf simply becaus they don't like them but call me a hipocrate but I wouldn't blink an eye at a rancher protecting their stock.

You are correct WDFW created a lot of wiggle room to escape payment. However, I would rather deal with WDFW than some people who want to refuse payments altogether. Thankfully WDFW is a little more honorable than that. 

I kind of think there are some ranchers in the Methow that haven't seen the honorable side of WDFW, where there hasn't yet been a Confirmed wolf predation, and not because the wolves haven't tried.

[bobcat]

You are correct WDFW created a lot of wiggle room to escape payment. However, I would rather deal with WDFW than some people who want to refuse payments altogether. Thankfully WDFW is a little more honorable than that. 

So ranchers are being compensated, then what's up with the title of this thread? If they get fully compensated for every animal killed by wolves, then why the complaints? Like I said, the whining is getting old. Some people will find any excuse just to complain about the government.

[bearpaw]

You are correct WDFW created a lot of wiggle room to escape payment. However, I would rather deal with WDFW than some people who want to refuse payments altogether. Thankfully WDFW is a little more honorable than that.

So ranchers are being compensated, then what's up with the title of this thread? If they get fully compensated for every animal killed by wolves, then why the complaints? Like I said, the whining is getting old. Some people will find any excuse just to complain about the government.

Why do you write something you know is not true. 

You know that ranchers are not getting compensated for all their losses and that is what is frustrating for them and why Dashiel had to move his sheep.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 Bearpaw.... it's

I think the point being missed here is that from the 50's to 90's there were only small numbers of wolves that did not run in large packs and did not prey on livestock. Our current situation is a direct result of government introduction and government rules preventing protection of property, thus government should pay as they promised.

I think you are missing the point that this is a democracy and its not 1950 anymore.  The public values its wildlife resources, including wolves, and does not want them reduced to 1950's levels...even if it places a hardship on ranchers.  Those are the facts.  Whether or not its fair...well, lifes not fair.

A country where people can get stuff taken from them without recourse because the public "values" it isn't a democracy.

I don't see anything about that in the definition of Democracy. I do see that the majority rules.

de·moc·ra·cy

1
a :  government by the people; especially :  rule of the majority
b :  a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
2
:  a political unit that has a democratic government
3
capitalized :  the principles and policies of the Democratic party in the United States <from emancipation Republicanism to New Deal Democracy — C. M. Roberts>
4
:  the common people especially when constituting the source of political authority
5
:  the absence of hereditary or arbitrary class distinctions or privileges

See http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/democracy

We are fast heading from a Republic (rule of law) to a democracy (rule of popular vote) -  that's why we have a record of Americans on government handouts and not making a living for themselves.

Beat me to it KF, but I would add the word "constitutional to republic which so many seem to have forgotten
'
 democracy = 2 wolves and a sheep discussing what's for dinner....

[wolfbait]

You are correct WDFW created a lot of wiggle room to escape payment. However, I would rather deal with WDFW than some people who want to refuse payments altogether. Thankfully WDFW is a little more honorable than that.

So ranchers are being compensated, then what's up with the title of this thread? If they get fully compensated for every animal killed by wolves, then why the complaints? Like I said, the whining is getting old. Some people will find any excuse just to complain about the government.

Why do you write something you know is not true. 

You know that ranchers are not getting compensated for all their losses and that is what is frustrating for them and why Dashiel had to move his sheep.

Because Bobcat likes to keep things all twisted up?

[idahohuntr]

Why do you write something you know is not true. 

Says the guy who wrote wolves did not kill livestock prior to 1995!

[Curly]

I think the point being missed here is that from the 50's to 90's there were only small numbers of wolves that did not run in large packs and did not prey on livestock. Our current situation is a direct result of government introduction and government rules preventing protection of property, thus government should pay as they promised.

 

The wonderful (need sarcasm font) wolf plan was shoved down our throats and it calls for compensation, so that is what needs to happen.

Now, the right thing to do is to throw out that stupid, idiotic, wolf plan and let people deal with the wolves how they want.  I think the Feds and the wolf hugging groups need to pay for any damages that the wolves cause since they are the ones that caused this mess.

[AspenBud]

 democracy = 2 wolves and a sheep discussing what's for dinner....

Now that's truth, but it has always been. Who the sheep is just changed over time. (waiting for smart comment in 3, 2,...)