deleted

[idahohuntr]

Tribal hunting is just about the #1 issue affecting deer and elk hunting in this state, in my opinion. And the state doesn't seem to care. The tribes are allowed to kill as much as they want, whenever they want. They are even given gate keys so they can drive into areas where everyone else has to walk, as if driving to the tops of mountains is some sort of cultural tradition for them that the white man can't take away.

I disagree as a whole.  While tribes might be a major factor in a specific area.  Maybe your pet area of focus, it is not a major issue or issue at all everywhere.  Bobcat, you have been painting the tribes with a pretty broad paintbrush since I joined this forum.  When you refer to tribes from now on, it would be helpful to everyone if you referred to the specific tribes your are speaking of.

I don't think he needs to when all tribes are all getting away with murder... No offense

So tired of these racist threads.  The same folks bashing natives and blaming every tribe for the decline of hunting opportunities.  There are 24 different tribes and nations that have treaty rights to hunt in this state. Not every tribe or tribal member is to blame.  Yes I agree there are some bad guys but the problem is the individual not the entire nation.

I really, really want to believe it is just a few bad apples...no different than any other group in society.  But what I have witnessed is so blatant and so common that it is difficult to believe the tribal government is unaware.  My perception is they either condone this wastage or just don't care.  I hope I'm wrong...it's why I asked earlier if there is some cultural aspect to killing an elk and only taking the antlers. 

[Practical Approach]

I have to agree with bobcat. We would have some of the best hunting in the state if truckloads werent being hauled out daily

Where are the truckloads pics?

I would like to see those myself. 

Do you have the harvest report for the entire state, that includes the Native % for both Deer and Elk? I'd be interested to see what the % is for the Yakima area that Bobcat is talking about.

Also whats the margin for error on that report,  or how many hunters do they assume or believe didn't report?

No, just the report for the west side tribes on the NWIFC.org website.  I am not sure about the error margin, but I have read from WDFW that the state has about a 60-70% reporting rate on any given year for their annual report.

Do you honestly expect us to believe those numbers in that link you posted of the harvest quotas for whites and Indians? Were not all stupid iv seen a lot of deer in tribal rigs in some those gmus then what's reported there

Yet another vague statement.  Yes I expect you to believe those numbers.  NO I don't expect that the report is 100% accurate, just like any other harvest report.  I would appreciate when you refer to truckloads of game in tribal rigs in gmu's you actually refer to the tribe and the GMU.  Again, if you read the report I posted, it does not report for all of the tribes, just 20 of them.  None on the eastside.

[JohnVH]

just like the natives fishing it sounds, they think its their right to do what they want, I have no problem with anyone, except the ones that break the law and screw up the hunting and fishing for the rest of us..
its a shame there isnt something that can be done.

Ive personally gone with a warden and seen him pull an illegal net in the nooksack, and when he confronted the native that did it, the guy didnt care and thought it was his right.  One of the fish in the net was rotten it was in there so long.. live off the land my @ss

[Practical Approach]

Tribal hunting is just about the #1 issue affecting deer and elk hunting in this state, in my opinion. And the state doesn't seem to care. The tribes are allowed to kill as much as they want, whenever they want. They are even given gate keys so they can drive into areas where everyone else has to walk, as if driving to the tops of mountains is some sort of cultural tradition for them that the white man can't take away.

I disagree as a whole.  While tribes might be a major factor in a specific area.  Maybe your pet area of focus, it is not a major issue or issue at all everywhere.  Bobcat, you have been painting the tribes with a pretty broad paintbrush since I joined this forum.  When you refer to tribes from now on, it would be helpful to everyone if you referred to the specific tribes your are speaking of.

I don't think he needs to when all tribes are all getting away with murder... No offense

So tired of these racist threads.  The same folks bashing natives and blaming every tribe for the decline of hunting opportunities.  There are 24 different tribes and nations that have treaty rights to hunt in this state. Not every tribe or tribal member is to blame.  Yes I agree there are some bad guys but the problem is the individual not the entire nation.

Pretty sure giving a certain race special privileges is racist no matter how you look at it


Nothing was given or is being given.  Pretty sure the tribes ceded their lands to the U.S. government with the guarantee that they would retain their hunting, fishing and gathering rights.  Language is in every treaty signed by Washington treaty tribes.

[PlateauNDN]

You know what I get tired of reading and hearing.........I'm sick of the truckloads, I'm sick of unequal rights, I'm tired of tribal poaching, etc etc etc................if people are so tired then step up with documentation, statements pictures anything that you will back up when questioned. That's doing something, not sitting here crying and complaining. Some of you have been provided papers in regards to things I've done and seen the proof of what documentation can do, the rest of you until you back up what you say it's never going to do anything....



Rant on................

[bobcat]

This is simply a discussion, I'm not sure there's any expectation by anyone involved that this thread is going to change anything in regards to the tribal over-harvest issue.

[pianoman9701]

I have a huge problem with natives taking spike deer in a 3 pt minimum unit.  346 to be exact...  I seen it with my own eyes, shot 20 yards off thd road. 

It should be equal to all parties. It makes a guy sick that we have rules but not all have to follow..

Rtspring

You're actually emphasizing my point, RT. They don't have those rules for harvest. Change will only come from the Tribal councils and they're not reading these threads. 

[jstone]

Thats why the Entiat is the way it is. Native hunting in the winter with rifles killing the big buck. Our Gov. with little balls.

[pianoman9701]

Thats why the Entiat is the way it is. Native hunting in the winter with rifles killing the big buck. Our Gov. with little balls.

Our Governor has no say over treaty rights. Native American hunting rights are completely outside of the his jurisdiction. Treaties are passed by Congress as law and endorsed by the President and are done so as with a sovereign nation. Don't get me wrong; I agree our Governor is a real fruitcake and completely ineffective. But, this situation has nothing at all to do with state politics. That's part of the problem with these threads. Some of the OPs and participants have no idea of at whose feet the blame should be laid.

[grundy53]

You know what I get tired of reading and hearing.........I'm sick of the truckloads, I'm sick of unequal rights, I'm tired of tribal poaching, etc etc etc................if people are so tired then step up with documentation, statements pictures anything that you will back up when questioned. That's doing something, not sitting here crying and complaining. Some of you have been provided papers in regards to things I've done and seen the proof of what documentation can do, the rest of you until you back up what you say it's never going to do anything....



Rant on................

Be honest. If folks did all of that would it even make a difference?

Pictures and first hand accounts have been provided in the past. Has anything changed?

I personally think folks post these threads mostly to vent more then anything knowing nothing is going to change. And the people who always ask for proof and documentation are just saying that as a smoke screen knowing full well it's going on and also knowing it won't change.

sent from my typewriter

[pianoman9701]

I disagree Grundy. The original intent may be on target , but these threads always go sideways and many who post to vent do so in a manner that's unproductive and paints entire populations with a wide brush. And, the laws which allow these activities were passed by white folks. If you want to lay blame, blame Congress.

[igotbigbulls]

Thats why the Entiat is the way it is. Native hunting in the winter with rifles killing the big buck. Our Gov. with little balls.

Our Governor has no say over treaty rights. Native American hunting rights are completely outside of the his jurisdiction. Treaties are passed by Congress as law and endorsed by the President and are done so as with a sovereign nation. Don't get me wrong; I agree our Governor is a real fruitcake and completely ineffective. But, this situation has nothing at all to do with state politics. That's part of the problem with these threads. Some of the OPs and participants have no idea of at whose feet the blame should be laid.

That is correct.  Know the facts on who is in charge of the things you want to change.  But like Plat says.......rant on

[grundy53]

I disagree Grundy. The original intent may be on target , but these threads always go sideways and many who post to vent do so in a manner that's unproductive and paints entire populations with a wide brush. And, the laws which allow these activities were passed by white folks. If you want to lay blame, blame Congress.

Huh? Did I blame anyone? Did I say it was productive? I don't see where you disagree with what I said?

sent from my typewriter

[bobcat]

I believe the state could address the problem in some way, if they wanted to. Instead, they use the same excuse that you are, Pianoman, that their hands are tied and only the fed's can change things.

I think these types of threads are great! They're educational to all who read them. Personally I had no clue how bad the problem was until reading about it on here.

Then I read "Operation Cody," retired WDFW officer Todd Vandivert's book, and learned that one of the biggest suppliers of deer and elk meat to the commercial poaching industry in this state are tribal members.

After learning that, it became much more obvious why so many tribal members are seen every winter bringing in truck loads of deer and elk. All my life I thought Indians were just like us- they hunted to provide healthy meat to their families. Now I know different. To many of them, killing deer and elk, and selling the meat (and the heads if they're trophies) is actually a job and how they make their money.

[trophyhunt]

I believe the state could address the problem in some way, if they wanted to. Instead, they use the same excuse that you are, Pianoman, that their hands are tied and only the fed's can change things.

I think these types of threads are great! They're educational to all who read them. Personally I had no clue how bad the problem was until reading about it on here.

Then I read "Operation Cody," retired WDFW officer Todd Vandivert's book, and learned that one of the biggest suppliers of deer and elk meat to the commercial poaching industry in this state are tribal members.

After learning that, it became much more obvious why so many tribal members are seen every winter bringing in truck loads of deer and elk. All my life I thought Indians were just like us- they hunted to provide healthy meat to their families. Now I know different. To many of them, killing deer and elk, and selling the meat (and the heads if they're trophies) is actually a job and how they make their money.

yeah that👆