deleted

[pianoman9701]

Practical is correct - none of the damage or kill permit harvests are included in the harvest data. Here's the response I got back from the WDFW's data guy:

"No. The data I am responsible for posting on the web is explicitly labeled general season or special permit or general season / special permit  data combined. Although I am not responsible for damage permits and kill permit data analysis, I am fairly sure those in charge of such data do not post them on the web. Damage permits and kill permits were administered for a long time by the Department's Enforcement Program. The new Wildlife Conflict Section of the Wildlife Program has only been up and running a little over a year (I believe) and its administration of such permits and analysis of their data is still evolving."

[igotbigbulls]

Wow, sure got you guys down another rabit hole. Maybe time to change the thread name 

[pianoman9701]

Wow, sure got you guys down another rabit hole. Maybe time to change the thread name 

Darned Indians changing the subject!  j/k

[coachcw]

I know for a fact that the tribes hit the deer and elk hard in dec and jan , but I also feel cat numbers and wolve are playing a big part, i'm willing to bet there's a bunch of poaching going on as well crazy how many people are out mucking around in the woods , i'm pretty sure we saw a archery guy take a deer up 3500 line before season , the guys where acting like they where taking a piss but had a bow sitting under there truck. plenty of problems for sure,

[Practical Approach]

I know this thread took a turn but I was a little surprised that nobody was concerned that damage hunt information is not being reported.  Especially given the level of harvest last year under the guise of damage in the Skagit. 

[pianoman9701]

I know this thread took a turn but I was a little surprised that nobody was concerned that damage hunt information is not being reported.  Especially given the level of harvest last year under the guise of damage in the Skagit.

I think there's a difference between the damage hunt not being reported and those numbers not being considered by the bios when making management decisions. Whereas, without reporting, we may not know the numbers but the WDFW does. I'm not sure that it's that big of a deal. I'd find it hard to believe that the scientists/bios aren't using that data in season planning, tag planning, future damage tag distribution, etc. Also, it's kind of a departure from the thread. Maybe a new thread is in order? 

[Practical Approach]

Maybe. ... but I get the feeling unreported harvest in the state harvest report just isn't as sexy to the group as a topic that deals with the tribes. 

[grundy53]

Maybe. ... but I get the feeling unreported harvest in the state harvest report just isn't as sexy to the group as a topic that deals with the tribes.

If someone really wanted to know how many animals were taken with damage permits they could file a FIA request and find out. Could we do that with the tribal harvest?

[grundy53]

I know this thread took a turn but I was a little surprised that nobody was concerned that damage hunt information is not being reported.  Especially given the level of harvest last year under the guise of damage in the Skagit.

I think there's a difference between the damage hunt not being reported and those numbers not being considered by the bios when making management decisions. Whereas, without reporting, we may not know the numbers but the WDFW does. I'm not sure that it's that big of a deal. I'd find it hard to believe that the scientists/bios aren't using that data in season planning, tag planning, future damage tag distribution, etc. Also, it's kind of a departure from the thread. Maybe a new thread is in order? 

  I'm sure they are using this information in the season setting proccess. Whereas they can only quess with most tribal harvest.

[bobcat]

The difference is damage permits generally are for animals on private land, that we cannot hunt anyway. The tribal harvest comes from mostly public lands, where most of us hunt. That's why we care about that much more so than a lack of information on any damage hunts.

[grundy53]

The difference is damage permits generally are for animals on private land, that we cannot hunt anyway. The tribal harvest comes from mostly public lands, where most of us hunt. That's why we care about that much more so than a lack of information on any damage hunts.

That is probably the main reason.

[Practical Approach]

The difference is damage permits generally are for animals on private land, that we cannot hunt anyway. The tribal harvest comes from mostly public lands, where most of us hunt. That's why we care about that much more so than a lack of information on any damage hunts.

I am sure you understand that with elk herd management, many of the herds that are on private lands are the same herds that move to public lands as well.  If you are negatively impacting a population when it is on private land, it still negatively impacts the very same elk that you are hunting when they are on public land.

And many state hunters do hunt those private lands.  Not as many as public lands sure.

[Practical Approach]

I know this thread took a turn but I was a little surprised that nobody was concerned that damage hunt information is not being reported.  Especially given the level of harvest last year under the guise of damage in the Skagit.

I think there's a difference between the damage hunt not being reported and those numbers not being considered by the bios when making management decisions. Whereas, without reporting, we may not know the numbers but the WDFW does. I'm not sure that it's that big of a deal. I'd find it hard to believe that the scientists/bios aren't using that data in season planning, tag planning, future damage tag distribution, etc. Also, it's kind of a departure from the thread. Maybe a new thread is in order? 

  I'm sure they are using this information in the season setting proccess. Whereas they can only quess with most tribal harvest.

Interesting that you can assume that the state is utilizing this information for management, but you assume the tribal harvest is bogus?  (referring to the westside reports not Yakima)

I find assuming dangerous. 

[grundy53]

I know this thread took a turn but I was a little surprised that nobody was concerned that damage hunt information is not being reported.  Especially given the level of harvest last year under the guise of damage in the Skagit.

I think there's a difference between the damage hunt not being reported and those numbers not being considered by the bios when making management decisions. Whereas, without reporting, we may not know the numbers but the WDFW does. I'm not sure that it's that big of a deal. I'd find it hard to believe that the scientists/bios aren't using that data in season planning, tag planning, future damage tag distribution, etc. Also, it's kind of a departure from the thread. Maybe a new thread is in order? 

  I'm sure they are using this information in the season setting proccess. Whereas they can only quess with most tribal harvest.

Interesting that you can assume that the state is utilizing this information for management, but you assume the tribal harvest is bogus?  (referring to the westside reports not Yakima)

I find assuming dangerous.

If you re read what I said I didn't say anything about westside tribes only. I included ALL tribes. Some of the biggest tribal harvests or harvest that have the most affect on critical herds are from tribes that don't report.

I find it amusing that you have the gall to tell me assuming is dangerous then YOU procede to assume that I'm talking about only westside tribes.

[Practical Approach]

I know this thread took a turn but I was a little surprised that nobody was concerned that damage hunt information is not being reported.  Especially given the level of harvest last year under the guise of damage in the Skagit.

I think there's a difference between the damage hunt not being reported and those numbers not being considered by the bios when making management decisions. Whereas, without reporting, we may not know the numbers but the WDFW does. I'm not sure that it's that big of a deal. I'd find it hard to believe that the scientists/bios aren't using that data in season planning, tag planning, future damage tag distribution, etc. Also, it's kind of a departure from the thread. Maybe a new thread is in order? 

  I'm sure they are using this information in the season setting proccess. Whereas they can only quess with most tribal harvest.

Interesting that you can assume that the state is utilizing this information for management, but you assume the tribal harvest is bogus?  (referring to the westside reports not Yakima)

I find assuming dangerous.

If you re read what I said I didn't say anything about westside tribes only. I included ALL tribes. Some of the biggest tribal harvests or harvest that have the most affect on critical herds are from tribes that don't report.

I find it amusing that you have the gall to tell me assuming is dangerous then YOU procede to assume that I'm talking about only westside tribes.

That is my fault I guess, I didn't follow my own rule and assumed we were talking about the unreported harvest in the Skagit where tribes do report harvest.