Wolves

[mkcj]

I have just enough involvement to be skeptical. Eventhough I am wrapping ribs for the que at the moment I am not fashioning my tinfoil hat yet.  ITs difficult for me to wrap my head around the sudden expansion of them, and the shroud of secrecy that seem s to go along with their numbers leads just enough doubt in my mind everything has been above board.

This is a very fair statement that I think MANY in this state will agree to.

[idahohuntr]

I have just enough involvement to be skeptical. Eventhough I am wrapping ribs for the que at the moment I am not fashioning my tinfoil hat yet.  ITs difficult for me to wrap my head around the sudden expansion of them, and the shroud of secrecy that seem s to go along with their numbers leads just enough doubt in my mind everything has been above board.

This is a very fair statement that I think MANY in this state will agree to.

Again, it seems about as simple as population dynamics can get to explain why wolves increased    As far as the "secrecy"...I don't get that either.  Have you ever called or talked to any number of wdfw people?  I don't think it counts as secrecy if you are unwilling to ask or make an effort to ascertain the answer. 

[boneaddict]

The last WDFW person I talked to about it was a biologist studying the lookout pack.  He happened to call my dad while I was visiting.  In the conversation he mentioned he had been studying them for two years yet hadn't seen one of them.  Interesting enough we were watching three of them out the window when the phone rang.     I would have liked to have seen his face when Idabooner told him that.  How exactly do you study something for two years ......anyways lost a little faith.

[Jason]

My uncles who have hunted for Elk around Mt Adams for 30+yrs, use to tell me that a hand full of times back in the mid to late 80's that they had seen Wolf tracks when the ground was white. Some years they seen tracks and other years they wouldn't see any. They said it was always two sets of tracks in the snow.
My uncles never laid eyes on them, but some nights when the wind wasn't blowing they could hear what they thought was wolf's howling.
Every time they seen tracks they would tell the game warden what they saw and where, and the game warden would tell them the same thing every time that it was just coyote tracks they were seeing and it would be a waste of time investigating it.

[Alchase]

The million dollar question:

Why now?

Show us this obvious data you are talking about.
I poste d the FAQ questions and answers to show specifically nowhere does the state in their released documentation, explain why mysteriously in 2008 wolves decided to migrate south.
They mention "natural migration" as the leading theory with no explaination to the "why

The million dollar question:

Why now?

If all the above is true..............

Then lets look at this from a "Scientific Method"

Why did wolves decide in 2008 to start repopulating Washington?

Was there more game?
No!

Was there more available territory?
No!

Was there a lack of food in Canada?
No!

Was there over hunting in Canada?
No!

Was there a population explosion in Canada pushing young wolves out?
No!

What changed in the last decade, that instigated this southerly (and Westerly from Idaho) migration so to speak?

No answer is being provided.

That is what has been bothering me this whole time.
I can't believe all the Bio's in the WDFW and the other "agencies" can not or have not asked this same question and determined an answer.

Before trapping, DNA samples, collaring, tracking, adding another pack to the list, the question "Why Now" would have to have been answered.

I think the data pretty clearly shows why wolves started showing up far more regularly in/around 2008 in washington...it was near the peak of the exponential growth of wolf numbers in idaho.  As their population grew exponentially it expanded into washington and oregon.   

To the questions about why didn't they expand sooner from Canada...I don't have a good understanding of the productivity and limitations and dynamics that would affect wolves in BC.  For whatever reason, and there are probably many that unfortunately for some do not involve a grand conspiracy, they did not expand exponentially like Idaho wolves. Most likely it represents that bc had a stable population which was not growing a whole lot or was not as productive...haven't they always been able to hunt/trap wolves in BC? Either way, wolves inhabiting their former range (which has been vacant of substantial numbers of wolves for 70+ years in Idaho) followed a pretty expected path of exponential population growth and expansion. 

All of this seems pretty basic and easy to understand with minimal effort, so to the folks who say "the question remains unanswered"...I have to say again...you can lead a horse to water...

If all the above is true..............

Then lets look at this from a "Scientific Method"

Why did wolves decide in 2008 to start repopulating Washington?

Was there more game?
No!

Was there more available territory?
No!

Was there a lack of food in Canada?
No!

Was there over hunting in Canada?
No!

Was there a population explosion in Canada pushing young wolves out?
No!

What changed in the last decade, that instigated this southerly (and Westerly from Idaho) migration so to speak?

No answer is being provided.

That is what has been bothering me this whole time.
I can't believe all the Bio's in the WDFW and the other "agencies" can not or have not asked this same question and determined an answer.

Before trapping, DNA samples, collaring, tracking, adding another pack to the list, the question "Why Now" would have to have been answered.

I think the data pretty clearly shows why wolves started showing up far more regularly in/around 2008 in washington...it was near the peak of the exponential growth of wolf numbers in idaho.  As their population grew exponentially it expanded into washington and oregon.   

To the questions about why didn't they expand sooner from Canada...I don't have a good understanding of the productivity and limitations and dynamics that would affect wolves in BC.  For whatever reason, and there are probably many that unfortunately for some do not involve a grand conspiracy, they did not expand exponentially like Idaho wolves. Most likely it represents that bc had a stable population which was not growing a whole lot or was not as productive...haven't they always been able to hunt/trap wolves in BC? Either way, wolves inhabiting their former range (which has been vacant of substantial numbers of wolves for 70+ years in Idaho) followed a pretty expected path of exponential population growth and expansion. 

All of this seems pretty basic and easy to understand with minimal effort, so to the folks who say "the question remains unanswered"...I have to say again...you can lead a horse to water...

Please by all means show us this obvious data you are referring to?

The reason I posted the FAQ and asked the question "why now" is because nowhere in any of the released documentation do they address the "why now"
The use "natural migration" as the reason.
If natural migration is the reason for the sudden movement south and west, then since it certainly would not be "natural" if it just magically start in 2008.

"All of this seems pretty basic and easy to understand with minimal effort, "

Please by all means produce this data that is "pretty basic and easy to understand".
While youare at it, you might want to share you data with the state, they must have missed it as well.

[MtnMuley]

If anybody on here honestly believes that the lookout pack just moved in from Canada and so happened to reside and den up in the Alder Ck area, you're outta your mind. Absolutely no £$¥÷*×£# way.

[idahohuntr]

The million dollar question:

Why now?

Show us this obvious data you are talking about.
I poste d the FAQ questions and answers to show specifically nowhere does the state in their released documentation, explain why mysteriously in 2008 wolves decided to migrate south.
They mention "natural migration" as the leading theory with no explaination to the "why

The million dollar question:

Why now?

If all the above is true..............

Then lets look at this from a "Scientific Method"

Why did wolves decide in 2008 to start repopulating Washington?

Was there more game?
No!

Was there more available territory?
No!

Was there a lack of food in Canada?
No!

Was there over hunting in Canada?
No!

Was there a population explosion in Canada pushing young wolves out?
No!

What changed in the last decade, that instigated this southerly (and Westerly from Idaho) migration so to speak?

No answer is being provided.

That is what has been bothering me this whole time.
I can't believe all the Bio's in the WDFW and the other "agencies" can not or have not asked this same question and determined an answer.

Before trapping, DNA samples, collaring, tracking, adding another pack to the list, the question "Why Now" would have to have been answered.

I think the data pretty clearly shows why wolves started showing up far more regularly in/around 2008 in washington...it was near the peak of the exponential growth of wolf numbers in idaho.  As their population grew exponentially it expanded into washington and oregon.   

To the questions about why didn't they expand sooner from Canada...I don't have a good understanding of the productivity and limitations and dynamics that would affect wolves in BC.  For whatever reason, and there are probably many that unfortunately for some do not involve a grand conspiracy, they did not expand exponentially like Idaho wolves. Most likely it represents that bc had a stable population which was not growing a whole lot or was not as productive...haven't they always been able to hunt/trap wolves in BC? Either way, wolves inhabiting their former range (which has been vacant of substantial numbers of wolves for 70+ years in Idaho) followed a pretty expected path of exponential population growth and expansion. 

All of this seems pretty basic and easy to understand with minimal effort, so to the folks who say "the question remains unanswered"...I have to say again...you can lead a horse to water...

If all the above is true..............

Then lets look at this from a "Scientific Method"

Why did wolves decide in 2008 to start repopulating Washington?

Was there more game?
No!

Was there more available territory?
No!

Was there a lack of food in Canada?
No!

Was there over hunting in Canada?
No!

Was there a population explosion in Canada pushing young wolves out?
No!

What changed in the last decade, that instigated this southerly (and Westerly from Idaho) migration so to speak?

No answer is being provided.

That is what has been bothering me this whole time.
I can't believe all the Bio's in the WDFW and the other "agencies" can not or have not asked this same question and determined an answer.

Before trapping, DNA samples, collaring, tracking, adding another pack to the list, the question "Why Now" would have to have been answered.

I think the data pretty clearly shows why wolves started showing up far more regularly in/around 2008 in washington...it was near the peak of the exponential growth of wolf numbers in idaho.  As their population grew exponentially it expanded into washington and oregon.   

To the questions about why didn't they expand sooner from Canada...I don't have a good understanding of the productivity and limitations and dynamics that would affect wolves in BC.  For whatever reason, and there are probably many that unfortunately for some do not involve a grand conspiracy, they did not expand exponentially like Idaho wolves. Most likely it represents that bc had a stable population which was not growing a whole lot or was not as productive...haven't they always been able to hunt/trap wolves in BC? Either way, wolves inhabiting their former range (which has been vacant of substantial numbers of wolves for 70+ years in Idaho) followed a pretty expected path of exponential population growth and expansion. 

All of this seems pretty basic and easy to understand with minimal effort, so to the folks who say "the question remains unanswered"...I have to say again...you can lead a horse to water...

Please by all means show us this obvious data you are referring to?

The reason I posted the FAQ and asked the question "why now" is because nowhere in any of the released documentation do they address the "why now"
The use "natural migration" as the reason.
If natural migration is the reason for the sudden movement south and west, then since it certainly would not be "natural" if it just magically start in 2008.

"All of this seems pretty basic and easy to understand with minimal effort, "

Please by all means produce this data that is "pretty basic and easy to understand".
While youare at it, you might want to share you data with the state, they must have missed it as well.

http://thewildlifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/final_2010_figure_5_rec_area_num__bp.jpg

look at the part of the graph from 02-09...that is called exponential population growth...that is when you have expansion.

There is no need to share this data with WDFW...they are well aware of why they are seeing more and more wolves.  Again, just because a few folks on this forum are uninformed about why wolves are increasing in WA does not mean everyone else in the world is also uninformed.  I referred to leading a horse to water a few times now...if you look at this graph and are still mystified about why wolves started showing up increasingly in WA in 08 or so...

[idahohuntr]

If anybody on here honestly believes that the lookout pack just moved in from Canada and so happened to reside and den up in the Alder Ck area, you're outta your mind. Absolutely no £$¥÷*×£# way.

Im not familiar with the alder ck area...why would one be out of their mind to believe wolves just moved in and resided/denned up there?  Wolves are highly migratory. 

[GrainfedMuley]

If anybody on here honestly believes that the lookout pack just moved in from Canada and so happened to reside and den up in the Alder Ck area, you're outta your mind. Absolutely no £$¥÷*×£# way.

Im not familiar with the alder ck area...why would one be out of their mind to believe wolves just moved in and resided/denned up there?  Wolves are highly migratory. 

Because there were way to many wolves in a very short period of time.

[PA BEN]

That is what has been bothering me this whole time.
I can't believe all the Bio's in the WDFW and the other "agencies" can not or have not asked this same question and determined an answer.

Before trapping, DNA samples, collaring, tracking, adding another pack to the list, the question "Why Now" would have to have been answered.

I remember back in the day the only turkeys to hunt was down by Hunters, Fruitland area. Then all of a sudden one year they started showing up in huntable numbers around the Colville Valley and they grew fast. I asked the game dept. how they got here and grew so fast. They had no idea how it happened.

[boneaddict]

I suspect you are on the right track PABen whether you meant it or not.....

The NWTF’s Making Tracks program is a cooperative effort
involving the state wildlife agencies. The goal of the program is to
release wild turkeys in all suitable habitats in the United States
and Canada.

Except I figure it involves a couple other groups.

[boneaddict]

I think according to Idaho, my horse is dieing of dehydration, but on that note,  I think he might be diabetic or will be soon  from all the koolaid he is drinking.

[Special T]

http://thewildlifenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/final_2010_figure_5_rec_area_num__bp.jpg

look at the part of the graph from 02-09...that is called exponential population growth...that is when you have expansion.

There is no need to share this data with WDFW...they are well aware of why they are seeing more and more wolves.  Again, just because a few folks on this forum are uninformed about why wolves are increasing in WA does not mean everyone else in the world is also uninformed.  I referred to leading a horse to water a few times now...if you look at this graph and are still mystified about why wolves started showing up increasingly in WA in 08 or so...

Why have the wolves from ID and YNP had exponential growth YET the wolves that were already in the cascades  did not have the same kind of growth?

Why was it necessary to bring wolves from the far north in the McKenzie Valley when just across the boarder in the Selkirk Mts the Canadians had plenty of them?

These are just a couple of the question that do not add up in my mind. When answers go against basic logic it requires me to be a skeptic and challenge both the methods and the motivations.

[Alchase]

Notice the graph says "excludes Washington and Oregon"
LOL

[GrainfedMuley]

Notice the graph says "excludes Washington and Oregon"
LOL

Things that make ya go hhmmmmmmmmmm....................