'Bold' wolf that bit researcher weighed 100 pounds, records show; most attacks n

[wolfbait]

'Bold' wolf that bit researcher weighed 100 pounds, records show; most attacks now on another farm

http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/09/wolf_attack_michigans_top_pred.html

[AspenBud]

"Many cattle casualties were notably due to one farmer’s neglect. Dead cattle were left on his field, and packs prowled. He was reimbursed by taxpayers. The farmer was charged after an MLive.com investigation and has closed his primary farm."

This is key.

"Kolpack has tried to fend off wolves. He believes some have migrated north from the previously notable farm, to his place. "

This is too.

"“I can’t quite get my head around how polarized this issue has become.”"

Amen brother.

"Michigan voters on Nov. 4 still will cast ballots on two wolf-related proposals in November. The ballots may be a public opinion poll at most. Lawmakers muted the impact, but wolf-hunting opponents are hoping to win in the court of public opinion.

Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, will be lobbying in Michigan next month, as will a leading state wolf researcher, John Vucetich."

They, HSUS, are the enemy. Hunter's, farmers, and ranchers get that in Michigan. For some oddball reason people here would prefer to worry about the government instead.

[KFhunter]

"reimbursed by taxpayers"

Somehow I don't think it's 100% of his losses,  if the reimbursement is like what Washington's livestock owners are seeing it's more like 3-5% of the total losses. (that being generous)

A couple of facts are clear.

The 1st rancher in the story closed his ranch as a direct result of wolf depredation.  Did DNR offer to remove the carcasses? 
The 2nd rancher did not have carcasses laying around but started suffering losses anyways.
The DNR officials were surprised how far the wolves traveled to find the 2nd ranch and start killing their livestock. 

Tells me that once wolves taste livestock, they must be eliminated.  It's impossible to find and remove all the carcasses on open range in brush country, so in that the neglect of the 1st rancher would play out here as well when finding all the carcasses would be extremely difficult.

If only the wolves would consume everything they killed the losses would be much more manageable, but they kill for sport and leave partially consumed animals to rot.

[Elkaholic daWg]

 Sound familiar......??

"There are more than 600 wolves in Michigan. The first hunt was last fall. Some Upper Peninsula residents believe downstate voters should butt out of the issue."

[pianoman9701]

"They, HSUS, are the enemy. Hunter's, farmers, and ranchers get that in Michigan. For some oddball reason people here would prefer to worry about the government instead."

A typically untrue and misleading statement. How unusual (sarc). Worrying about the animal rights wackos and the government are not mutually exclusive. Both have done a great job of ensuring the extreme entrenchment of the wolf in WA and both will be hurdles to cross in finally getting to the steady management of wolves in our state. MI, WI, MT, WY, and ID haven't seen anything compared to the damage and havoc they'll create here before management starts. Much of that has to do with our wildlife commission being in bed with (or actual members of) extreme environmental groups. We need to be vigilant of the actions of these groups and our government.

[AspenBud]

"They, HSUS, are the enemy. Hunter's, farmers, and ranchers get that in Michigan. For some oddball reason people here would prefer to worry about the government instead."

A typically untrue and misleading statement. How unusual (sarc). Worrying about the animal rights wackos and the government are not mutually exclusive. Both have done a great job of ensuring the extreme entrenchment of the wolf in WA and both will be hurdles to cross in finally getting to the steady management of wolves in our state. MI, WI, MT, WY, and ID haven't seen anything compared to the damage and havoc they'll create here before management starts. Much of that has to do with our wildlife commission being in bed with (or actual members of) extreme environmental groups. We need to be vigilant of the actions of these groups and our government.

Every time the issue of wolves or anything else anti hunting in Michigan comes up, guess who is there sending thousands, if not millions, of dollars to try and make it swing their way? Oh, that's right, it's HSUS. Guess who sends in people from out of state to push their agenda? Oh that's right, it's HSUS. Guess who shows up and actively works in Washington doing the same thing? That's right, HSUS.

HSUS us a giant lobbying organization that pumps a lot of money into political campaigns both directly and indirectly. You cut the head off that snake and you have much easier going with any issues with government as it relates to wildlife management.

When hunters and livestock owners take on the issue of wolves or any threat to hunting out there they often make HSUS enemy number one and their primary target and find ways to work with government to prevent HSUS from succeeding. They don't sit around threatening civil war or worrying about conspiracy theories and spend essentially no time fighting them.

Here, I invite you to do a search for the term HSUS on this site, it is just one among many examples out there where people have figured it out.

https://www.facebook.com/truthaboutkeepwolvesprotected

There is nothing misleading, HSUS is the root of many of our problems here just as they are elsewhere. People here just don't seem to get it and would rather add it to their list of government gripes that they talk about when they play capture the flag on Militia Weekend.

If you want change in government you need to go after the money. That means going after HSUS any way you can.

[pianoman9701]

So, you're of the opinion that we're ignoring the HSUS, the Defenders, and all the other wacko groups, then? You'd be wrong. Again, and I'll try to type slowly so you get it, there's no reason we can't be vigilant of both the wacko groups and the WDFW, and we are. You seem to have some screw loose that makes you think we can only identify one culprit in this mess. Not sure where you get that but it's completely and utterly wrong.  The HSUS is on everyone's radar and so is the WDFW. It maybe for different reasons, but both have contributed to the adoption of an outrageous plan and both will be obstacles to timely management of the eaters.

[AspenBud]

So, you're of the opinion that we're ignoring the HSUS, the Defenders, and all the other wacko groups, then? You'd be wrong. Again, and I'll try to type slowly so you get it, there's no reason we can't be vigilant of both the wacko groups and the WDFW, and we are. You seem to have some screw loose that makes you think we can only identify one culprit in this mess. Not sure where you get that but it's completely and utterly wrong.  The HSUS is on everyone's radar and so is the WDFW. It maybe for different reasons, but both have contributed to the adoption of an outrageous plan and both will be obstacles to timely management of the eaters.

And I'll type this slowly for you, politicians follow the money like flies on wolf poop. Take away the money or out spend it and the politics change.

[Elkaholic daWg]

   Psssssssssst,Aspen

 Similarities.... Lower Michigan=BLUE as it gets with Detroit as it's shining star

                       Pugetropolis......Also as blue as it gets...................
               ........and both bullies want control the rest of their state
 now just what party do HSUS, DOW, CNW Sierra Club Nature conservancy and so many others Support?? And who fills the Commission seats?


Any Ideas on just HOW to take away that $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[AspenBud]

   Psssssssssst,Aspen

 Similarities.... Lower Michigan=BLUE as it gets with Detroit as it's shining star

                       Pugetropolis......Also as blue as it gets...................
               ........and both bullies want control the rest of their state
 now just what party do HSUS, DOW, CNW Sierra Club Nature conservancy and so many others Support?? And who fills the Commission seats?


Any Ideas on just HOW to take away that $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes, Michigan is so blue that it has a Republican governor who supports hunting and turned the heavily unionized state into a Right to Work state and they have a Republican legislature.   

Oh yeah, and they have a wolf season, they still trap, and you can run hounds on bear.

The comparison works to a point, but at the end of it HSUS spends a lot of money on TV ads and on political campaigns to manipulate the issues there and in recent years they have not faired well because sportsmen and livestock owners aimed both barrels at them and fought back and started engaging the public as HSUS does.

HSUS has lost political support there so now they try and take on things through initiative and that's where the LP's influence matters because initiatives circumnavigate the politicians. They pulled it off with dove hunting there and that's why hunting groups have fought so hard to ensure game management decisions are decided and approved by the NRC and not the public. Something HSUS and their affiliates hate.

[KFhunter]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

[idahohuntr]

So, you're of the opinion that we're ignoring the HSUS, the Defenders, and all the other wacko groups, then? You'd be wrong. Again, and I'll try to type slowly so you get it, there's no reason we can't be vigilant of both the wacko groups and the WDFW, and we are. You seem to have some screw loose that makes you think we can only identify one culprit in this mess. Not sure where you get that but it's completely and utterly wrong.  The HSUS is on everyone's radar and so is the WDFW. It maybe for different reasons, but both have contributed to the adoption of an outrageous plan and both will be obstacles to timely management of the eaters.

Wrong.  HSUS et al. will be obstacles but WDFW is the biggest ally sportsman have in this state when it comes to any kind of wolf management.  I am simply amazed that people think WDFW has no interest/desire in managing wolves...do you not realize how easy and painless it would be for them to NEVER authorize killing wolves?  Three county commissioners and 4 or 5 of their followers might gripe if they don't do anything with wolves...nobody important in state politics would care.  They authorize wolf killing they probably fill the governors inbox with messages to end it and to fire all the people who supported such a state action.  We can argue all day that wdfw should have only had 5 bps in the wolf plan not 15...it does not take away from the fact that without wdfw in the middle of this polarized issue trying to inject reasonableness and compromise sportsmen and ranchers would get hosed a lot more than you could imagine.

[pianoman9701]

What a surprise that you'd come charging in defending the WDFW. The outrageous wolf plan is their plan. And, the fact that management can't begin until 3 years after population and disbursement goals are met is ridiculous. They'll stick to the plan regardless of the damage it does to our state's economy and ungulate populations.

[AspenBud]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

[idahohuntr]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena. 

[pianoman9701]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

You're funny. I've got your good fight right here. Their (the WDFW's) outrageous wolf plan is the reason management hasn't begun already with the confirmed 13 packs and estimated 16. We should have a wolf season now. It's their fault we don't. You know it, too. But we all know that your unending love for the wolf and your favorite government institution is never-faltering.

[Alchase]

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like. 

Wow, that is like saying:
 
"we are banning all meat, but you can still have Tofu - hey it's better then us forcing you to be a vegetarian!"

[AspenBud]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

You're funny. I've got your good fight right here. Their (the WDFW's) outrageous wolf plan is the reason management hasn't begun already with the confirmed 13 packs and estimated 16. We should have a wolf season now. It's their fault we don't. You know it, too. But we all know that your unending love for the wolf and your favorite government institution is never-faltering.

Who influences WDFW or the people who tell them what to do? Again, who is the puppeteer? It's not WDFW, it's HSUS and their affiliates that are calling the shots via their influence and money. Change that dynamic and you'll see WDFW get more teeth on the matter.

[KFhunter]

Kick Jay Khene off the WDFW commission then, get CNW out of WDFW's decision making process.

[pianoman9701]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

You're funny. I've got your good fight right here. Their (the WDFW's) outrageous wolf plan is the reason management hasn't begun already with the confirmed 13 packs and estimated 16. We should have a wolf season now. It's their fault we don't. You know it, too. But we all know that your unending love for the wolf and your favorite government institution is never-faltering.

Who influences WDFW or the people who tell them what to do? Again, who is the puppeteer? It's not WDFW, it's HSUS and their affiliates that are calling the shots via their influence and money. Change that dynamic and you'll see WDFW get more teeth on the matter.

If what you're saying is true, then the entire WDFW administration should be fired for not knowing to whom they're responsible. Going after the HSUS will do no good. But proving a government agency is making wildlife management decisions based on the wishes of an organization from MI and getting them all fired for it just might. Either way, the WDFW is responsible for this mess and for ignoring the needs of our citizens who are affected by it.

[jasnt]

Kick Jay Khene off the WDFW commission then, get CNW out of WDFW's decision making process.

[Elkaholic daWg]

   Psssssssssst,Aspen

 Similarities.... Lower Michigan=BLUE as it gets with Detroit as it's shining star

                       Pugetropolis......Also as blue as it gets...................
               ........and both bullies want control the rest of their state
 now just what party do HSUS, DOW, CNW Sierra Club Nature conservancy and so many others Support?? And who fills the Commission seats?


Any Ideas on just HOW to take away that $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Yes, Michigan is so blue that it has a Republican governor who supports hunting and turned the heavily unionized state into a Right to Work state and they have a Republican legislature.   

Oh yeah, and they have a wolf season, they still trap, and you can run hounds on bear.

The comparison works to a point, but at the end of it HSUS spends a lot of money on TV ads and on political campaigns to manipulate the issues there and in recent years they have not faired well because sportsmen and livestock owners aimed both barrels at them and fought back and started engaging the public as HSUS does.

HSUS has lost political support there so now they try and take on things through initiative and that's where the LP's influence matters because initiatives circumnavigate the politicians. They pulled it off with dove hunting there and that's why hunting groups have fought so hard to ensure game management decisions are decided and approved by the NRC and not the public. Something HSUS and their affiliates hate.

I think that is why I said LOWER Michigan with Detroit as its  shining star. So the huggers are playing for public emotion there to pass their initiative. Seems most of the rest of the state has come to it's senses. Okay??

 And this question  And who fills the Commission seats?    was pointed at Washington

[wolfbait]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

Idahohuntr-You say WDFW are fighting the good fight? The actions by WDFW in just managing predators that that are not on the ESA doesn't support your claim.

Anderson said WDFW was responsible for managing all wildlife, if WDFW were managing the deer etc. there would be better predator control and wolves wouldn't be on the states ESA.

If you took the time to read the info. on the wolf introduction into ID, MT, and Wyoming you would learn that WDFW are following the same plan as the USFWS. And as we are seeing getting the same results.

The only difference is WDFW refusing to confirm wolf packs or BP's unless forced to do so, which didn't happen until later on with the USFWS introduction.

The Real FWS Wolf Recovery Agenda
That agenda has been promoted in “Society for Conservation Biology” publications by federal biologists involved in wolf recovery since Canadian wolves were first transplanted. David Mech’s “The Challenge and Opportunity of Recovering Wolf Populations” appeared in the 1995 Volume. 9(2) issue of “Conservation Biology.”
In 2001, environmental groups, including The Nature Conservancy and the World Wildlife Fund, joined with the National Park Service in creating a more sophisticated magazine called “Conservation Magazine” designed to sell the wildlands/biodiversity agenda to academia. In 2004 FWS Wolf Team Leader Ed Bangs praised a BS thesis by a biology student concerning non- lethal wolf “control” (later published in Conservation) and announced he had hired her as a wolf “specialist”.
Wildlife biologists in all three recovery states knew about the numbers deception but only Wyoming G&F, under pressure from its Governor, attempted to hold FWS to the original de-listing criteria. IDFG Director Groen’s Jan. 14th News Release declared the Department’s intention only to “stabilize” (halt the dramatic annual increase in) existing wolf populations in Idaho.
Because IDFG estimates Idaho had a minimum population of 732 wolves in the fall of 2007 that means F&G intended to maintain a minimum of at least seven times as many wolves in Idaho as we were told would exist after recovery. But pretending that the biologists’ estimated minimum fall wolf population is near the actual wolf population is simply another deception misleading Idahoans and their elected officials as will be illustrated later in this article.
http://idahoforwildlife.com/files/pdf/georgeDovel/The%20Outdoorsman%2026%20January%202008%20full%20report.pdf

In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, any copyrighted material herein is distributed without profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving this information for non-profit research and educational purposes only. For more information go to: http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml

[idahohuntr]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

Idahohuntr-You say WDFW are fighting the good fight? The actions by WDFW in just managing predators that that are not on the ESA doesn't support your claim.

Anderson said WDFW was responsible for managing all wildlife, if WDFW were managing the deer etc. there would be better predator control and wolves wouldn't be on the states ESA.

If you took the time to read the info. on the wolf introduction into ID, MT, and Wyoming you would learn that WDFW are following the same plan as the USFWS. And as we are seeing getting the same results.

Wolfbait - I'm not saying wdfw has gotten everything we would like as hunters in this state, nor am I implying they have done everything correctly or made perfect decisions all the time.  What I am saying is, they have, in a difficult political environment walked a tight-rope to keep the ultra greenies from taking over.  I think wdfw has less control over wolves than they would like.  You must admit, it would be a lot easier for wdfw to not authorize any wolf killings...but they are doing what is right and being as aggressive in management as current politics will allow.  They are definitely sticking their necks out when they pursue lethal wolf management...its a shame it is that way, but I don't see any value in alienating wdfw...if they (wdfw) feel they have lost their support from sportsmen...then why make life difficult??  They can just call CNW and ask what they want them to do.  I realize your perception is that is what happens now...but I assure you it is not.  These greenie groups are as critical of wdfw as you are   

If Wa ends up like Id, Mt, Wy...I would be happy.  It would mean most of the state will be left in good shape with plenty of good hunting opportunity.  For a guy skeptical of everything the government says, I really wish you would head over to a few areas in these various states and see that it is not all the destruction and devastation you seem to imply.  Like I've said earlier, its usually the guys that don't hunt these other states that scream the loudest about the impacts (both real and exaggerated).

[Stein]

In Montana, hunters and trappers harvested a piddly 225 wolves in the 12-13 season and it was up 36%.  Hunters shot 128 wolves during the 181 days.  18,642 licenses were sold.

Compare that to JUST elk licenses at 107,568 and harvest of about 20,000.  Less than one in five elk hunters purchases a license.  Less than 2 in 1,000 elk hunters shoot a wolf.  Probably 9 in 10 complain about wolves killing elk.

If 1% of just the elk hunters shot a wolf, the harvest would go up over 500% in one year.

[wolfbait]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

Idahohuntr-You say WDFW are fighting the good fight? The actions by WDFW in just managing predators that that are not on the ESA doesn't support your claim.

Anderson said WDFW was responsible for managing all wildlife, if WDFW were managing the deer etc. there would be better predator control and wolves wouldn't be on the states ESA.

If you took the time to read the info. on the wolf introduction into ID, MT, and Wyoming you would learn that WDFW are following the same plan as the USFWS. And as we are seeing getting the same results.

Wolfbait - I'm not saying wdfw has gotten everything we would like as hunters in this state, nor am I implying they have done everything correctly or made perfect decisions all the time.  What I am saying is, they have, in a difficult political environment walked a tight-rope to keep the ultra greenies from taking over.  I think wdfw has less control over wolves than they would like.  You must admit, it would be a lot easier for wdfw to not authorize any wolf killings...but they are doing what is right and being as aggressive in management as current politics will allow.  They are definitely sticking their necks out when they pursue lethal wolf management...its a shame it is that way, but I don't see any value in alienating wdfw...if they (wdfw) feel they have lost their support from sportsmen...then why make life difficult??  They can just call CNW and ask what they want them to do.  I realize your perception is that is what happens now...but I assure you it is not.  These greenie groups are as critical of wdfw as you are  

If Wa ends up like Id, Mt, Wy...I would be happy.  It would mean most of the state will be left in good shape with plenty of good hunting opportunity.  For a guy skeptical of everything the government says, I really wish you would head over to a few areas in these various states and see that it is not all the destruction and devastation you seem to imply.  Like I've said earlier, its usually the guys that don't hunt these other states that scream the loudest about the impacts (both real and exaggerated).

"These greenie groups are as critical of wdfw as you are"

It's just a game, which you already know. WDFW are in bed with the green groups and have been for some time, it just didn't start in 08. Defenders of Wildlife, CNW etc., the USFWS and WDFW all worked together back in the 1980's and 90's with the grizzly bear and wolf push. How would it look to the public if WDFW openly embraced  DoW, etc.? Do you remember when WDFW had DoW on their web site? I believe it's still there just hidden a bit more. Bearpaw remembers I'm sure.


In Washington, Feds Opt For Wolf Introduction Over Recovery  http://www.skinnymoose.com/bbb/2010/06/08/in-washington-feds-opt-for-wolf-introduction-over-recovery/

Then, and now

http://www.conservationnw.org/who-we-are/conservation-northwest

[idahohuntr]

I don't think managing our wildlife is "just a game".

[Wenatcheejay]

Which higher management person has stated they support a wolf hunting and trapping season in WDFW?  Who has admitted the "pack identification program is propaganda? " Who supports following Idaho in the Eastern part of Washington? Who admits that it is definitely not at a loss for wolves? Who is not lockstep with Defenders of Wildlife? Seriously, until hunters are like the Second Amendment Foundation and suing WDFW more aggressively than the econuts, suing ti the point that hiring and pensions can not be done, we lose. Lawsuits, it's how it's played now.

[idahohuntr]

Which higher management person has stated they support a wolf hunting and trapping season in WDFW?  Who has admitted the "pack identification program is propaganda? " Who supports following Idaho in the Eastern part of Washington? Who admits that it is definitely not at a loss for wolves? Who is not lockstep with Defenders of Wildlife? Seriously, until hunters are like the Second Amendment Foundation and suing WDFW more aggressively than the econuts, suing ti the point that hiring and pensions can not be done, we lose. Lawsuits, it's how it's played now.

A bunch of baseless lawsuits will not help anything. 

[Wenatcheejay]

Until they fear pro-hunting more than anti-hunting this is worthless. This isn't about biology or ecosystems, it's politics. Hunters eat their own. It's our fault. It's why we loose.

[Wenatcheejay]

I think "negotiations" is irrelevant.  Without lawsuits (threat of force) and other means that costs the State more than anti-hunting groups pay for their political agenda it's irrelevant.

[idahohuntr]

Until they fear pro-hunting more than anti-hunting this is worthless. This isn't about biology or ecosystems, it's politics. Hunters eat their own. It's our fault. It's why we loose.

Almost their entire existence is based on hunting...hunters suing pro-hunting agencies is not going to help. I do agree wolf stuff is mostly politics.

[Wenatcheejay]

I think you are actually right idaho. I honestly do. But the politics are what have to be attacked. Take Idaho, (the state) wolves were pushed on IDFG. But now their liberal tags and season,  that I support.  WDFW is not IDFG. The politics behind it is the problem. Those who support hunting, trapping,  private gun ownership need to viciously and with zeal support what we do. The North American Model of game management.  Defenders, CNW, and HSUS have no interest in management.  Only politics, and I will discuss them as such.

[idahohuntr]

Oh, I definitely agree the politics in WA is what the problem is...wdfw is in a much more difficult position for managing wolves than idaho was...at least once they were federally de-listed.  I just don't think wdfw inherently wants to let these greenie groups drive management decisions...but politically they are forced to.  So I agree the fight must be political...as in getting broad voter support on important issues like lethal wolf management.  Im just not sure suing wdfw is the answer...maybe a bunch of people can sue those greenie groups and keep them pre-occupied in court and away from wildlife management issues   

[Wenatcheejay]

They will never ever vote to allow hunting of wolves. They will sue to stop it. Even government agencies killing dangerous or problem wolves, King County and political pressure will not allow it. Lawsuits,  because they make more off of fishing.  I'd bet a dollar it is the fear of lawsuits that drives wolf management.   That, and special interest grease. (Politics)

[AspenBud]

WDFW deserves all the criticism it gets by having CNW members sit on their commission and by accepting funds from various groups to bolster their reward for wolf poaching, range riders and other "wolf deterrents".   They make livestock owners enter into a binding agreement that's full of red tape and beurocracy then give unfettered access to HSUS type groups to run around their private property. 

Then once all the deterrents fail they openly mock and criticize the livestock owner who just a week prior was "very cooperative with WDFW and various NGO groups" next thing you know they got 200 sheep gone and now have to foot the bill to find new grazing range and only get compensated for something like 18 animals.  No compensation for all the fuel, manpower, loss of private grazing lands, 186 sheep unaccounted for and the PTSD like suffering of the rest of the sheep, aborted lambs, open and unbred ewes the list goes on and on.  That sheep owner is lucky to see 2% compensation for his real losses.

Yet they won't take money from the Cattlemen's association to help collar and track wolves.     


Yes, HSUS is the enemy; and WDFW is their enabler and co-conspirator.

No, HSUS and their affiliates is the enabler and the enemy. They front the money that gets people into positions that matter. What happens at WDFW is largely a direct result of that.

Money buys influence and power.

Correct...but given those tremendous obstacles by HSUS et al., wdfw has still managed to be tougher on wolves than any of those groups and their politicians would like.  Sportsmen ought not to turn their backs on an agency that is fighting the good fight in a difficult and challenging political arena.

You're funny. I've got your good fight right here. Their (the WDFW's) outrageous wolf plan is the reason management hasn't begun already with the confirmed 13 packs and estimated 16. We should have a wolf season now. It's their fault we don't. You know it, too. But we all know that your unending love for the wolf and your favorite government institution is never-faltering.

Who influences WDFW or the people who tell them what to do? Again, who is the puppeteer? It's not WDFW, it's HSUS and their affiliates that are calling the shots via their influence and money. Change that dynamic and you'll see WDFW get more teeth on the matter.

If what you're saying is true, then the entire WDFW administration should be fired for not knowing to whom they're responsible. Going after the HSUS will do no good. But proving a government agency is making wildlife management decisions based on the wishes of an organization from MI and getting them all fired for it just might. Either way, the WDFW is responsible for this mess and for ignoring the needs of our citizens who are affected by it.

HSUS is headquartered in Washington D.C, not Michigan. There is a reason for that, so they can lobby politicians. Money = influence

Take them out and the politics will change.